Guest shiloh357 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Your responses, Justin, only serve to prove my point. I am not saying that God doesn't heal or that he doesn't use people to heal others. Not saying that at all. I raised the issues about all the fantastic claims that believers can have power over nature and can command storms to cease and raising the dead. You move the goal posts with videos about people being healed, as if that proves the claims about resurrections and power over nature to be true. So you are really trying to refute an issue I never raised in order to deflect attention away from the undocumented, and completely bogus claims about resurrections and other such claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted June 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Your responses, Justin, only serve to prove my point. I am not saying that God doesn't heal or that he doesn't use people to heal others. Not saying that at all. I raised the issues about all the fantastic claims that believers can have power over nature and can command storms to cease and raising the dead. You move the goal posts with videos about people being healed, as if that proves the claims about resurrections and power over nature to be true. So you are really trying to refute an issue I never raised in order to deflect attention away from the undocumented, and completely bogus claims about resurrections and other such claims. There are two videos I've posted where believers take authority over a tornado and it lifts right after prayer. You can say that believers don't have power to command storms but those videos show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Yeah, right. Funny how they can't seem actually use that "power" to stop the flooding in Texas, and again, these believers never seem to be able muster up the courage to rebuke major televised disasters. It's always some obscure event. They didn't stop any major hurricane in the last 25 years, they can't seem to do anything about all of the droughts and adverse conditions that causing people in other parts of the world to starve and die of malnutrition. Cant seem to use this so-called "power" when it really matters. Some guy speaks to a tornado and coincidentally the tornado goes up. Tornadoes are erratic and unpredictable. I have lived through more than one and I have seem them suddenly dissipate. They can be blowing down a house one minute and the next minute they are gone. Tell you what, Justin, you hop on a plane, go over and make a video using your power over nature in a meaningful way in Ethiopia and end the weather that is constantly perpetuating drought and famine conditions over there, and let's see what happens. Or better yet, since Heidi Baker is in Africa, have her use her power over nature to help those people over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 10, 2015 send her to California... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 And I will add this. I have been doing some studying on the claims being made by John Wimber, C. Peter Wagner, Oral Roberts of many, many people raised from the dead. Oral Roberts claimed that over the years he had many people raised from the dead. Yet, for some reason, no one who has a healing ministry can produce one documented person for testimony. These resurrections are claimed but those who demand proof are rebuffed if they do so. If Heidi Baker has raised people from the dead in her ministry, surely she has proof. You would think over several decades that the Charismatics could produce numerous documented proofs of resurrections. Yet, they can't. We're just supposed to believe those claims without scrutiny or question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2015 And I will add this. I have been doing some studying on the claims being made by John Wimber, C. Peter Wagner, Oral Roberts of many, many people raised from the dead. Oral Roberts claimed that over the years he had many people raised from the dead. Yet, for some reason, no one who has a healing ministry can produce one documented person for testimony. These resurrections are claimed but those who demand proof are rebuffed if they do so. If Heidi Baker has raised people from the dead in her ministry, surely she has proof. You would think over several decades that the Charismatics could produce numerous documented proofs of resurrections. Yet, they can't. We're just supposed to believe those claims without scrutiny or question. In this age we live in, when everyone has a camera all the time, when every building is pretty much under surveillance all the time, and nothing can be kept secret EVER, we are asked to believe that such fantastic happenings are not filmed or documented in any way? I think the best thing to do would be to call these 'prophets' out and demand proof they're telling the truth. If they can't provide it (death certificates, videos of dead people rising, testimonies of family members that their dead loved ones rose) then they should be prosecuted for fraud. Which shouldn't be hard because they are raising money from the public. If they ARE telling the truth then we detractors would owe them a huge apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I agree. If they prove that these ministries are raising the dead, then I will agree that the dead are being raised and I will apologize for saying that they are not raising the dead. However, I don't follow signs and wonders. My faith is not rooted in the supernatural. My faith in rooted in Scriptures and does not need to be validated by signs and wonders. Even if signs and wonders are occurring it is not proof that God is the source. And given the false teachings of so many of these teachers, it is not likely that we can trust the signs and wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2015 I agree. If they prove that these ministries are raising the dead, then I will agree that the dead are being raised and I will apologize for saying that they are not raising the dead. However, I don't follow signs and wonders. My faith is not rooted in the supernatural. My faith in rooted in Scriptures and does not need to be validated by signs and wonders. Even if signs and wonders are occurring it is not proof that God is the source. And given the false teachings of so many of these teachers, it is not likely that we can trust the signs and wonders. Yeah, the 'signs and wonders' thing has been nagging at me since this thread started. I simply can't find anything in Scripture that tells us that anyone besides Jesus can raise the dead. The Apostles were given the power to heal but I can't recall anyone they raised from the dead. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Dawn Posted June 11, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 277 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 270 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/23/1967 Share Posted June 11, 2015 MorningGlory, there are instances of people being raised from the dead by Apostles and Prophets: One example is in Acts 20 where a young man fell asleep during Paul's teaching and fell to his death. Paul raised him back to life. Elijah raised woman's son back from the dead in I Kings 17 Elisha healed a boy in II Kings 4 Peter raised Tabitha in Acts 9 ByFaith Apostles and Prophets were at times used to raise people from the dead but there are few recorded examples. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where non-Apostle/Prophets were given the authority to raise the dead. If I'm simply missing it...PLEASE let me know. We never see multitudes of believers out healing everyone either. We see isolated times...for specific purposes. I'm not even sure there are any recorded miracles (performed through men) after Acts. I'd have to check to be certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 11, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2015 MorningGlory, there are instances of people being raised from the dead by Apostles and Prophets: One example is in Acts 20 where a young man fell asleep during Paul's teaching and fell to his death. Paul raised him back to life. Elijah raised woman's son back from the dead in I Kings 17 Elisha healed a boy in II Kings 4 Peter raised Tabitha in Acts 9 I should have searched harder! Actually I did know about Elisha and the boy but I forgot it. The other two I don't remember. Okay, I stand corrected about resurrections in Scripture. I still don't believe that random people are resurrecting the dead now though. Or that someone can just say they're an apostle or a prophet and it will be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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