Unconditional

[hmbld]

from a human perspective allowing people to suffer eternally in hell is not an act of love.

 

 

I've known people who feel this way.  I have always somehow taken offense to this.  I do feel something deep inside that hurts terrible knowing hell is real.  But knowing God gave us free will, is there any alternative?  There are consequences i suppose, that we can't understand when God gave us free will.  It must hurt God in a terrible way also to have so many people reject Him.  But as Shiloh said, God is Holy.  No one deserves God's grace, yet He offers it.  What does love look like?

 

There is a song i've pondered, Arms wide open by Misty Edwards,

 

Then I sat down, a little frustrated and confused

If all of life comes down to love

Then love has to be more than sentiment

More than selfishness and selfish gain

And then I saw Him there, hanging on a tree, looking at

me

I saw Him there, hanging on a tree, looking at me

He was looking at me, looking at Him, staring through

me

I could not escape those beautiful eyes

And I began to weep and weep

He had arms wide open, a heart exposed

Arms wide open; He was bleeding, bleeding

[hmbld]

Jesus paid for our sins.  He paid for them hanging on that tree, arms wide open.  How do you love the very people who hurt you that deeply?  What is this love God has shown us?  

Shiloh said "Human love is hot one day, cold the next.  It is fickle and preferential.  "  

 

I guess I am ashamed of my actions regarding the new commandment verse.  Yet I find I don't know any better.  Or I have not been able to let go of a lot of hurt and past attacks.  Only way to cope I know how to do is avoid, forget, and seclude myself.  And probably find someone to blame for anything i can.  There has gotta be more.  There just has to.

[Cog]

 

You never want to project our human experience of love on to God.   God's love is unconditional, but it is also perfect and holy.   Human love is hot one day, cold the next.  It is fickle and preferential.  

 

Agreed.  It seems some people have much larger swings each way on different days lol.  

 

John 13:34  "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

 

Such a short command, yet who can follow it?  I have always had difficulty with even a 5 minute conversation with someone, even more so if I don't know the person very well.  Difficult as in painful, even for the other party generally speaking lol.  So maybe everyone else understands what love is.  Yes, i do have kids, even then i can't explain love.  How do we get over ourselves to follow this simple command to those who lie, cheat or hurt us?  Or even a less personal example, how to love that person you rarely have to see who may be particularly abrasive?  I've been pretty good at generally distancing or ignoring many people.  Everyone at work knows i don't learn the new peoples names for about the first two years because most will not be around that long anyway lol.  Some of it is I am terrible at remembering names, but part of it is my attitude about people that they just aren't reliable, they always leave.  Given the above verse, my attitude must change.

 

 

Don't associate people/souls with their will/spirit, then, like a child to others, it is easy to love people. (love the sinner hate the sin.)

 

Of course, that's easier said than done because we learn that putting up barriers "protects us". Yet, it is those barriers which protect us from hate/wickedness, that also keep us from love/good and forgiveness. So, what you really want to do is pratice forgiveness, and practice understanding (understand that they likely don't understand what they are doing). Understand that people do not understand how to love/agape - they think that love does not need to be just, and/or they think that if they do not receive love then they should not give love. But in reality, it is the ones whose agape/love is reliable and depended upon who really receive the most love. Like bees, for example. If bees stopped doing their work/producing their fruit, we would all freak out and try to help them, because we depend on them and their love - and that is how we should be -- we should be love, not just practice love. But don't get me wrong, we should not make it our mission to cast pearls before swine, nor forgive those who do not want forgiveness - that is not good either.

[Uncertain]

Humans are not perfect, thus our love will not be. I also don't believe the love for a spouse can ever be unconditional, it is not that sort of love. The only thing that comes close to unconditional love in humans is the live of a parent for a child.

[hmbld]

Humans are not perfect, thus our love will not be. I also don't believe the love for a spouse can ever be unconditional, it is not that sort of love. The only thing that comes close to unconditional love in humans is the live of a parent for a child.

Why would love for a spouse ever not be unconditional? It's like when you say your vows you only mean to hold your side as long as you feel like your spouse is worthy of your love. The vows I remember seem to indicate unconditional to me.

[Uncertain]

Humans are not perfect, thus our love will not be. I also don't believe the love for a spouse can ever be unconditional, it is not that sort of love. The only thing that comes close to unconditional love in humans is the live of a parent for a child.

Why would love for a spouse ever not be unconditional? It's like when you say your vows you only mean to hold your side as long as you feel like your spouse is worthy of your love. The vows I remember seem to indicate unconditional to me.

Marriage vows are a two sided covenant between two people, in order for the covenant to be valid both must uphold their side.

I do not know about you but I knew my wife for a period of time before there were any feelings and even longer before there was love. That love was built upon who she was as a person. All of her traits are what caused me to love her in the way that a spouse loves the other. The love of spouses for each other is a unique love that is not shared by any other groups.

It is different from the love I have for my child, that love is unconditional and was in existence prior to ever meeting my child. It was not and never will be based upon the actions of my child.

I think part of your struggle is you do not understand that their are different kinds of love. The love God is speaking of is not the love of a man and a wife. I still love my former wife in the same manner I love my neighbor and everyone else in the world, but no longer is it the love it once was.

[Ezra]

Humans are not perfect, thus our love will not be. I also don't believe the love for a spouse can ever be unconditional, it is not that sort of love. The only thing that comes close to unconditional love in humans is the live of a parent for a child.

This is very true. As to love between husbands and wives, it is supposed to be mutual, but at the same time for Christian husbands it is supposed to be "as Christ loved the Church". And wives are to reciprocate by submission to husbands. That is a proof of their love for God and their hudbands.

 

The evidence that Christ loved the Church is that He gave Himself for it. So God's love -- agape -- is action conducive to the eternal wellbeing of the individual.  And we love Him because He first loved us.  And the evidence of our love is obedience -- keeping His commandments.  So in all of this there is more than sentiment.  Which means that Christ's love also includes rebuke and chastening (Rev 3:19).  Indeed, God says that unless we experience chastening we cannot be sure that we are His children (Heb 12:6-15).  So it is not all sweetness and light

[hmbld]

 

Humans are not perfect, thus our love will not be. I also don't believe the love for a spouse can ever be unconditional, it is not that sort of love. The only thing that comes close to unconditional love in humans is the live of a parent for a child.

This is very true. As to love between husbands and wives, it is supposed to be mutual, but at the same time for Christian husbands it is supposed to be "as Christ loved the Church". And wives are to reciprocate by submission to husbands. That is a proof of their love for God and their hudbands.

 

 

 

Ephesians 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

Now, this sounds easy, but, even good intentions can leave much to be desired.  It also seems more times than not, when effort is put forth the enemy attacks all the more.  Very hard to realize self protection is destroying.  Thanks Ezra, you brought this up.