Salvation

[HePaidForUs]

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Is this an absolute statement?

 

It seems like everyone is saying everyone else is going to Hell. Catholics say there is no salvation outside of the RC Church. Many say that those who think they have to have good works along with faith are going to Hell because they don't put "all their faith in Jesus." Others say that anyone without good works is going to Hell because of X passage.

 

But all of these people believe in Jesus Christ. 

 

I know of the sanctification God gives. That is not what I'm asking.

 

What I am asking is:

Is this an absolute statement?

 

 

For instance:

Someone who was my best friend growing up was born in Detroit, sold drugs, lied, fornicated, etc etc... He got hit in the head by a stray bullet right before highschool graduation. He believed Jesus Christ is God's Son. 

 

It seems MOST people would say, if not outright - in their doctrine, that he is in eternal fire. 

 

Here is what I recognize. We have a greatest commandment.

 

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, whichis the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

Who keeps this commandment every day? I don't think anyone on Earth does. 

 

At judgment, we have to render an account for every idle word. Jesus said judge not lest ye be judged. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

God's Spirit makes us desire holiness and wars against our flesh. I'm not saying we should not be holy.

 

Is John 3:16 an absolute, definitive statement on salvation made directly by God? 

 

He didn't say "whoever believes in Him is not condemned IF..." He reiterated this quite a few times in His Word.

 

I constantly hear people in debates etc saying that everyone who has (insert false or true doctrine here) belief is going to Hell.

 

I'm left in the situation where it often seems that the only one who is telling me I'm not going to Hell for messing up is God in John 3:16. He said His Blood paid for all my sins and His Spirit wars against my flesh.

 

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, whichis the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

I haven't kept this commandment for a single day of my life. I have tried and failed. I'm breaking the greatest commandment every day of my life and there is nothing I can do about it. Does John 3:16 still apply to me? Sometimes I start to doubt that I can get to Heaven if I don't do enough good works. I still believe in God's Son, but I just believe that a certain level of holiness is necessary - in those moments. Other times I remember that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

 

Either I am continually passing between a state of being saved and being damned, or I am always saved.

 

Jesus Christ paid for me and is exalted above all other names. His very Spirit, the same Spirit who lives in me, is the same PERSON who WROTE John 3:16.

 

Then there are the doubts "but....what....if.... and every "but, what, if" is the same question in essence...."what if John 3:16 is not a literal, final, definitive statement on Salvation straight from the mouth of God Almighty HIMSELF?" I wrestle those doubts every day of my life. Similar to how I wrestle with keeping the greatest commandment every day of my wretched life.

 

Is John 3:16 a final, definitive, completely literal statement straight from God? And if not, why didn't God say "if..." 

 

 

 

 

[Willa]

The normal response to our really trusting Jesus for dying in our place is to surrender our lives to Him to do with as He wills.  We stop resisting Him.  We start depending on Him for the little things like remembering where we put our glasses or to help us to love people who really bug us.  This is what it is to live by faith every day.  It is no longer about us and what we do but about Him and what He has done.  When we depend on Christ every day we find ourselves doing His will more-- and less our own will.    Phil. 2:13  For it is God Who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. NKJV.  

 

So I don't look for what I can do for God.  There is nothing I can do of my own.  I can only ask Him to live in me to do His works through me.

[OneLight]

Man should let God do what He does and we just step out of His way.  We can tell others what leads people to hell, but we cannot judge if one is going there or not.  There is not one person alive who can see the future.

[Uncertain]

IF God exist and the bible is Holy Word, then we are saved despite our failings, despite our human sin nature. I am going through a time of doubt over much of what I thought I knew about God and the bible. The human logic in me is looking at things and going " how does that make sense".

But I also know that the man who baptized Jesus, who heard the voice of God, had a time of doubts. So I think doubt is a normal part of being human.

[missmuffet]

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Is this an absolute statement?

 

It seems like everyone is saying everyone else is going to Hell. Catholics say there is no salvation outside of the RC Church. Many say that those who think they have to have good works along with faith are going to Hell because they don't put "all their faith in Jesus." Others say that anyone without good works is going to Hell because of X passage.

 

But all of these people believe in Jesus Christ. 

 

I know of the sanctification God gives. That is not what I'm asking.

 

What I am asking is:

Is this an absolute statement?

 

 

For instance:

Someone who was my best friend growing up was born in Detroit, sold drugs, lied, fornicated, etc etc... He got hit in the head by a stray bullet right before highschool graduation. He believed Jesus Christ is God's Son. 

 

It seems MOST people would say, if not outright - in their doctrine, that he is in eternal fire. 

 

Here is what I recognize. We have a greatest commandment.

 

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, whichis the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

Who keeps this commandment every day? I don't think anyone on Earth does. 

 

At judgment, we have to render an account for every idle word. Jesus said judge not lest ye be judged. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

God's Spirit makes us desire holiness and wars against our flesh. I'm not saying we should not be holy.

 

Is John 3:16 an absolute, definitive statement on salvation made directly by God? 

 

He didn't say "whoever believes in Him is not condemned IF..." He reiterated this quite a few times in His Word.

 

I constantly hear people in debates etc saying that everyone who has (insert false or true doctrine here) belief is going to Hell.

 

I'm left in the situation where it often seems that the only one who is telling me I'm not going to Hell for messing up is God in John 3:16. He said His Blood paid for all my sins and His Spirit wars against my flesh.

 

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, whichis the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

I haven't kept this commandment for a single day of my life. I have tried and failed. I'm breaking the greatest commandment every day of my life and there is nothing I can do about it. Does John 3:16 still apply to me? Sometimes I start to doubt that I can get to Heaven if I don't do enough good works. I still believe in God's Son, but I just believe that a certain level of holiness is necessary - in those moments. Other times I remember that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

 

Either I am continually passing between a state of being saved and being damned, or I am always saved.

 

Jesus Christ paid for me and is exalted above all other names. His very Spirit, the same Spirit who lives in me, is the same PERSON who WROTE John 3:16.

 

Then there are the doubts "but....what....if.... and every "but, what, if" is the same question in essence...."what if John 3:16 is not a literal, final, definitive statement on Salvation straight from the mouth of God Almighty HIMSELF?" I wrestle those doubts every day of my life. Similar to how I wrestle with keeping the greatest commandment every day of my wretched life.

 

Is John 3:16 a final, definitive, completely literal statement straight from God? And if not, why didn't God say "if..." 

Everything in the Bible is the absolute truth.

[SueZQ]

Every law ever given by God is impossible to keep.  Even breaking one of the laws in the 10 commandments you are guilty of breaking them all.  This all points to why we need a Savior, a sacrifice, Jesus.  It's all about what He did.  The law was given to show us that works can't get us to Heaven. 

 

Once accepting Christ into your heart you are going to feel badly when you do something wrong.  The Holy Spirit is our HELPER.  He lets us know so we can go DAILY and ask forgiveness of our sins. 

 

Working on your personal relationship with Christ is paramount!  It's between you and Him, shown to you through the Word and taught to you through the Holy Spirit.

 

It's not about being a "good" Christian.  Knowing the Bible from Genesis to The Revelation.  It's about you getting into an intimate place with Jesus. 

 

I suggest to every Christian to take time in their life where they put down all the books that teach what the Bible means, stop watching and listening to their favorite teachers, and just spend time alone with Jesus.  You and Him and the Bible.  Ask Him the questions.  Ask Him for greater insight and understanding. 

 

When I talk to my daughter, I don't want her repeating something from a television show she watched.  I don't need her grasping at my feet and crying for forgiveness each time she has disappointed me.  I just want my daughter, my authentic daughter with all her mistakes, all her shortcomings, just her.  I must believe that's what Jesus wants from us. 

 

God made you.  He's happy with you even if you aren't happy with yourself.  He knows you have learning and growing to do.  He's patient and always there.  He is Holy.  The longer you are in Christ the more you will come to learn and appreciate His Holiness, and His way of doing things. 

 

Allow God to teach you... but someone that needs answers also needs to be teachable. 

[Sister]

 

Then there are the doubts "but....what....if.... and every "but, what, if" is the same question in essence...."what if John 3:16 is not a literal, final, definitive statement on Salvation straight from the mouth of God Almighty HIMSELF?" I wrestle those doubts every day of my life. Similar to how I wrestle with keeping the greatest commandment every day of my wretched life.

 

Is John 3:16 a final, definitive, completely literal statement straight from God? And if not, why didn't God say "if..." 

HePaidForUs

 

We can't fool God.

A child of God who is not walking in the spirit of Christ will not receive the inheritance, do not be deceived.

A truly repentant heart will lead us to seek what the Father requires of us,

and we find this in the scriptures, truth.

When we come to Christ, we are to be like children knowing nothing, except that he has the power to forgive sins,

and that we must trust in him to guide us on that path to salvation for he is the only way.

 

John 14:6   Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

and from there our journey starts.  We have to now find out what that path involves with Christ leading the way.

...Because we are like little children knowing nothing, we are given grace and covered for a period of time to really learn what truth is.  Nobody on this earth can learn the truth in one day, as it takes time to read and soak in all the commandments given to us.  Without taking the time to study God's word, we won't know what to change, and can be deceived, but if we persevere, meditate on his words and put it into action, he will continue to feed us with all knowledge and truth.

We then can exercise what he has taught us.   Our minds and hearts have to be renewed, our thinking has to change because what God is doing is replacing that "spirit of the world" in us by reprogramming us from the inside with his spirit and his way of thinking. 

What we have inside us will produce fruit.  The fruit is what we produce, what is coming forth out of us, ...our actions, manifestations of our heart and spirit.

The fruit  should be good if there's a change, because it will reflect on what we are filled with, but every tree that produces bad fruit will be cut down.

 

 

We are going to stumble and fall a few times.  There will be days when we will be strong and days when we are weak.  God knows the enemy will put up a fight for our souls, as there is a real spiritual battle going on behind the scenes which we cannot see.  So you see we are covered for a time, but during this process, we learn the hard way that every action of ours has consequences, and we learn not to touch the unclean thing whatever it was, and the reason behind it why God instructed us to refrain.  It's all a learning process, and our weaknesses have to be overcome.  And when we overcome that, we find new weaknesses not to be ignored, because our eyes will be opened more and more, as God perfects us from the inside out until that spirit of the world is completely replaced.  In that process he will reveal everything to us, good and bad, and of things to come so that we can armour ourselves with knowledge to make the right decisions when trials come our way.

So read read read, with a pure heart and hunger for truth and you will be filled having all your questions answered.

 

 

In answer to your question?

John 3:16   For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

This is truth.  For whoever will believe on Christ will do all that he commands, trusting him as our shepherd, and obeying him with all our heart and soul to everything that he instructs,will lead us to life.  This is a promise to the faithful, not the unfaithful.

 

 

1 John 3:24   And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 2:3   And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

 1 John 2:4   He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[Ezra]

Is John 3:16 a final, definitive, completely literal statement straight from God? And if not, why didn't God say "if..." 

John 3:16 is the heart of the Gospel and must be believed in its plain literal sense.  At the same time, it is not to be isolated from the rest of the Gospel.  To "believe" on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved means to believe that:

 

1. He is truly God, the Word of God and the Son of God -- God manifest in the flesh to become the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world.

 

2. He died for all of my sins as my Substitute. 

 

3. He rose again for my justification.

 

4. He is both Lord (God) and Christ (Messiah).

 

5. When I receive Him as my Lord and Savior, I receive the gift of eternal life as well as remission (forgiveness) of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit).  Salvation is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us..."

 

6. I must repent (turn away from all my sins and idols) and turn to Him by faith and ask Him to come into my soul and save me, for "Whosoever shall call upo the name of the lord, shall be saved".  Scripture demands  "repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ".  Therefore He is not simply "Jesus" but "Lord Jesus Christ" which means Master, Sovereign, Savior and Lord.

 

In Scripture those who truly believed were immediately baptized (Mk 16:16). Therefore the one who truly believes must be baptized as the first step of obedience.  It symbolizes that I died with Him and rose with Him to walk in newness of life. Hence it is by immersion. 

[HePaidForUs]

Then is there a difference between not perishing and inheriting?

 

We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

There are 2 judgments.

 

GWT is for those who deny the Son of God.

 

God the Father sanctifies us. We don't sanctify ourselves:

 

Jude 1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

 

We all do what we would not do

 

Romans 7:19

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

 

Every one of us errs every day and sows in the flesh.

 

 

The only reason we even WANT to obey God is because of HIS sanctifying work.

 

When we believed in His Son, He gave us of His own Spirit. 

 

Does everyone who is saved INHERIT the Kingdom of God? As in, become co-heirs with Christ? Or are some just saved?

 

We know that most of the world is perishing. Is most of the church perishing too? Most people who believe in Jesus are not even really trying to obey Him (sow in the Spirit) from the way it appears. Especially teenagers. It's not that they don't WANT to obey Him, in Spirit and in Truth. It's that we are constantly tricked by our enemy! We have literal evil spirits deceiving us every day. We get tricked into not trying to obey Him. We get confused, we fall in pits. According to John 3:16, none of us will be condemned.

 

God also said:

 

Galatians 6:8

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

 

Make no mistake, God wants us to sow in the Spirit and be Holy, and even gave us of His own Spirit. That is His will.

 

Romans 7:19 shows us our error: that is that we do not do what we would do and we do what we would not do. We can not escape this error in this life. God's Son died for all of our sins. 

 

I just see how God worded John 3:16 and I see that, one way or the other - and there is only one Way (faith in Jesus Christ and His Blood), everyone who confesses with their mouth and believes with their heart - everyone who truly believes God sent His only Son to save us - is saved. That includes people who do evil every day of their lives. I still do evil every day of my life, in fact I break the greatest commandment every day and there is nothing I can do to change that fact. Who loves God with their whole heart every second of every day? To not do so is to sin and break the GREATEST commandment.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a way to turn God's grace into an excuse for me to sin. I'm acknowledging that we all do evil.

 

Part of our armor is the HELMET OF SALVATION. It is important for people to KNOW they are saved. Not THINK they MIGHT be. KNOW. If we don't KNOW we are saved, the enemy has an opportunity.

Edited June 25, 2015 by HePaidForUs

[Ezra]

Then is there a difference between not perishing and inheriting?

Absolutely.  Not perishing pertains to not being consigned to Hell.  But no one inherits eternal life.  Those who receive eternal life as a GIFT also receive an eternal inheritance as a GIFT. And Christians "inherit" the Kingdom of God because we are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.  That is why He has made the Church a Royal Priesthood.