The rapture and the first resurrection.

[thereselittleflower]

I would like to hear opinions on the following question.

 

Are the rapture and the first resurrection the same event or two separate events separated by a period of time?

 

Jeff

 

 

The first resurrection is connected to baptism in which we are buried with Christ, and raised through faith.  We are dealing with highly symbolic language in Revelation, so we must seek it's symbolic meaning.    The second death has no power of those who have been born again.

 

Romans 6:4

Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

 

Colossians 2:12

having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

[Littlelambseativy]

Littlelambseativy said in post 19:

 

All of these had and will have to keep the law since there will be no period of "grace" .

 

Are you thinking of the idea of an end of an "age of grace"?

 

If so, regarding the present age (world) ending, note that nothing in verses like Ephesians 1:21b, Ephesians 1:10, Ephesians 3:2, Colossians 1:25, Titus 2:12b and Hebrews 6:5 says or requires that only the present age is an age of grace or a church age, or that the age to come won't also be an age of grace or a church age.

 

Also, the present age can include the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) and the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20), with the age to come being the subsequent time of the new earth (Revelation 21). For the end of the present age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-15).

The end of this age ends with the rapture and resurrection ..it is NOW that the Holy Spirit seals the Bride. After 'this present age' the Holy Spirit will still be active during the Tribulation period, but no one will be sealed. The Age of Grace will have ended and those who will not accept the mark of the beast will have to once again keep the 10 Commandments.

[WilliamL]

 ... The first resurrection is a series of resurrections with Christ as the firstfruits. ...

 

 

... The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,”1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4). ...

 

These answers best sum it up. The word for "first" is protos, which can mean first in time, or rank or importance, i.e. the "principal one." The 144,000, for example, are called "firstfruits to God," Rev. 14:4, after they arise to stand before the heavenly throne. They are certainly included in this category.

 

Seven resurrections are mentioned in Revelation, so the "first" resurrection is clearly referring to importance, not time.

[WilliamL]

bopeep1909 quoted a website in post 17:

There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection.

 

The original Greek word (egeiro: G1453) translated as "arose" in Matthew 27:52 can refer to recently-dead people's bodies being resuscitated back to mortal life, like how Jesus "raised (egeiro)" the recently-dead Lazarus (John 12:1), who was one of Jesus' followers (John 11:11, cf. John 15:14), back to mortal life, by crying out with a loud voice (John 11:43-44). The dead saints who were raised sometime later when they heard Jesus cry out with a loud voice on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-52, John 5:25), and who came out of their graves after Jesus' physical resurrection (Matthew 27:53), could have also been recently-dead followers of Jesus. Their bodies were resuscitated back to mortal life, like happened with Lazarus (John 12:1). For the resurrection of Jesus' followers into immortal physical bodies won't happen until his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't happen until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

Egeiro means to be awakened from sleep or death. The term is used many times to refer to the resurrection of Jesus -- such as by the angel in Mt. 28:6-7 -- so one cannot assume that those who arose soon after Jesus didn't have immortal bodies like He did.

 

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 

Jesus descended into Hades and preached there (Eph. 4:9-10; 1 Pet. 3:19). Hades at that time held both the righteous-but-unsaved and the unrighteous dead. There is no good reason to believe that the righteous there, after hearing and accepting the Gospel, were not able to be awakened and arise from Hades in immortal bodies like Jesus did.

[Last Daze]

Concerning resurrection unto immortality:

 

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

 

This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.  John 6:39

 

None are raised immortal until Christ raises them on the last day, at His coming.  That's the first resurrection.

 

I'll stick with what's plainly stated.

[WilliamL]

Concerning resurrection unto immortality:

 

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

 

This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.  John 6:39

 

None are raised immortal until Christ raises them on the last day, at His coming.  That's the first resurrection.

 

I'll stick with what's plainly stated.

 

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. ... Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 

Jesus is not the only one who raises up the dead, Ezra.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Opinions vary of course. I think the best way for me to explain what I think, is to give you a link to a summary, where I list events I believe the Bible predicts, and the verses which support those events and imply their sequence.

 

1 Thess 4:

 

13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

 

Note the order there:  

 

• Dead in Christ rise
• The Rapture

Does not seem vague nor ambiguous, it also does not seem that some considerable length of time between that ressurection and the rapture is stated nor implied.

 

What else seems implied?

 

Rev 20

 

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. 

 

 

Just my understanding of course others disagree, but it seems to me that the first resurrection, mentioned in Rev 20, is refering to the bold print in verse 4. Since they come to life and reign with Christ for a thousand years, that make the context a premillenial event. However, it also says that they had been beheaded for there testimony of Jesus (that makes the Christians), and that they refused the mark of the Beast, to that places these beleivers in the Great Tribulation. 

 

So, short of some compelling evidence that contradict this understanding, it looks like, the dead in Christ rise first (in the resurection) and then the living are raptured to meet those beleivers and Jesus in the air. Additionally, Rev 20 says this takes place after Christian martyrs died in the tribulation, and are resurected, to be followed by the living Christians, yet before the Millenium.

 

Seems to me, that these verses support only two possibilities.

 

1. Martyrs are resurrected in the end or 2. just after the tribulation, and the rapture takes place just after that.

 

Matt 24 however, says this:

 

29“Immediately after the distress of those days

“ ‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’^b

30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth^c will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.^d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

That seems to place these events immediately after the tribulation, unless immediatly after the tribulation, means something other than immediatly after the tribulation. Notice how well that also agrees with the words of 1 Thess 4. Paul says this is according to the Lord, I am inclined to think Paul is alluding to the discourse described in Matt 24. 

 

What do you think Watching for Jesus?

[Ezra]

The 1st resurrection and the rapture are for those who believe in Jesus, the Christ, have accepted Him as their Saviour and had their sins forgiven, washed in the blood of the Lamb.

The second resurrection is for those who lived righteously under the "law", as the OT saints, the martyrs of the Tribulation. All of these had and will have to keep the law since there will be no period of "grace" .

Since by the deeds of the Law no flesh shall be justified, it is the faith of the OT saints which is imputed to them for righteousness. (Heb 11).  But the second resurrection is for the unrighteous dead.  The first resurrection is in three phases or stages, the firstfruits (Christ and perhaps some of the saints), the harvest (the Church), and the gleanings (Tribulation Saints).

[Ezra]

it also does not seem that some considerable length of time between that ressurection and the rapture

If one does not superimpose any PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS  on the Scripture pertaining to the Rapture, then the Resurrection-Rapture is A SINGLE EVENT and everything is in the twinkling of an eye.

[Kan]

According to the different views out there in the different religions of Babel - the place of multilingual confusion,

 

we have several resurrections and raptures, just to start with the very minimum of options.

 

There is the physical rapture and the physical resurrection, the symbolic rapture and resurrection, and the spiritual rapture and resurrection.

Then we have the physical second resurrection, the symbolic second resurrection and the spiritual second resurrection.

And of course there are hundreds of texts to back it all up.

 

Now we also have more than one rapture in some sectors, the pre trib rapture and the post trib rapture.

And pre trib and post rib resurrections,

And mix and match post trib and pre trib resurrections and raptures.

Then we have the first and second resurrections occurring simultaneously and also spread apart by 1000 years.

Then we have the spiritual first and second resurrections, post and pre trib mix and match raptures as well.

 

Then to add to the confusion we have spirits and bodies going in all directions in all different times with all different events, symbolically, literally and spiritually.

 

Bodies dying, bodies coming up, bodies healing, bodies improving, bodies being left behind, bodies re-inhabited by ghosts, spirits and ghosts leaving the body, spirits and ghosts seeking bodies, spirits and ghosts coming down from heaven spirits and ghosts going up to heaven, Bodies departing and going to hell, spirits and ghosts going to hell, spirits and ghosts leaving hell for a second chance, and mix and matching bodies and spirits and ghosts, at either the first resurrection or second resurrection, symbolically, physically and or spiritually.

 

Now we also have more than one trib. There is the first trib and the second trib. The first trib is before the rapture the other trib is after the rapture, sometimes symbolically, spiritually and or physically.

 

Now we also have the coming of the Lord somewhere in there, which can also be symbolic, literal and spiritual, and may fit in after the trib, after the rap, before the trib and rap, and with the rap and trib, or after one and before the other, or simultaneously with one and distant of the other, spiritually, physically and symbolically.

 

We also have a past coming of the Lord, 1914 AD, a spiritual and symbolic one, and a literal one in other religions. We also have past raptures and past tribulations, and past resurrections, symbolically, spiritually and physically.

 

And last of all we have religions without any of these events.

 

Now we also have different levels and stages in both heaven and earth and hell. these stages can be progressive according to the development of the individual or just the arbitrary wish of the gods. There is a separate paradise, Abraham's bosom, waiting rooms, limbo's, second chance sections, about 23 altogether. This also includes the spiritual and physical and symbolic versions of each, with ghosts, spirits and bodies going in all directions to all destinations, at all different times, in all different ways, for all different reasons, to and from all different kinds of holdings, spiritually, symbolically and physically.

 

Now if we take all these events and mix and match them, then we have all the religions in Christendom, and the chance of finding the truth in all of this, is less than the chance of winning the lottery.

 

Now to galvanize the whole lot into an eternal state of confusion, we have every being and person, spiritual, symbolic or physical, up held by the god of the universe with eternal life - immortality, either in heaven or in hell, whatever they be.

 

(I forgot the mid trib rapture !)