The Lord Jesus Christ

[Ezra]

The term 'the Lord Jesus Christ' is a very very powerful and unique term. Anyone in the first century Israel would have clearly understood what is being said as that term is so unique, and a long awaited prophetic fulfillment. Throughout the NT, it is very clear the Jesus is God. There are no reasonable doubts as to what Jesus is saying about Himself.

To deny that Jesus is God is to deny what God Himself has revealed about His Son (that He is Immanuel or Emmanuel), and what Christ Himself has revealed about who He is (before Abraham was I AM). 

 

There are many (particularly the cults) who deny that Jesus is God.  But no man can be saved unless he confesses with his mouth "the LORD  Jesus" and believes in his heart that God has raised Him from the dead (Rom 10:9). When doubting Thomas confessed the Lord Jesus, he proclaimed "MY LORD AND MY GOD". 

 

The heresy of Arianism continues to this day in many circles.  The Bible tells us that this is the spirit of Antichrist (1 Jn 2:22,23; 2 Jn 7-11).

²² Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

²³ Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also...

⁷ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

⁸ Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

⁹ Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

¹⁰ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

¹¹ For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

What does John mean by "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?  The answer is found in 1 Tim 3:16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD (THEOS) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. [The modern Bible versions have the corrupted reading and changed "God" to "He" or "Who"].

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, Retro, you are lying when you deny the deity of Jesus.   It also proves that you are not a believer, but a hell bound sinner in need of salvation.  You are not trusting in the Yeshua of Scripture but in a different Yeshua.

 

You don't know Hebrew and simply using a concordance doesn't equate with knowing Hebrew or Greek.   You are unable to rightly divide the Scriptures.  

 

YHVH is not translatable and the word Lord is used in its place by both Jewish and Christian scholars.  Everyone knows that except for you apparently.  The Jewish people, when speaking use "Adonai" in place of YHVH when speaking to or about God.   That doesn't change in the Jewish NT, either.  The NT uses Greek to express Hebraic truths.   YHVH is connected to Jesus in Philippians 2:10-11 when Jesus is said to have the Name above all names (YHVH) and that every knee should bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is LORD (YHVH) to the glory of God the Father.

 

To reject the deity of Jesus is not only lying, but you are calling God a liar. 

 

What seems lost on you because you don't really know Hebrew is that "Son of God"  means that Jesus is God.   "Son of"  in Hebraic thought draws an equality between two things.    Jesus called James and John "sons of thunder."   They were not the offspring of thunder, but Jesus was using that term to draw a comparison between their short temper and thunder.   Same with calling Judas, "the son of perdition."  

 

When Jesus called himself, "The Son of God" or referred to God as His Father, Jesus was called a blasphemer by his enemies.  The Pharisees understood what "Son of God" meant and they tried to stone Jesus for declaring He is God.  Jesus at no time corrected anyone for thinking he was God.   Jesus declared Himself to be the giver of eternal life, which is a claim to deity.

 

I could write for hours of all the different ways Jesus is declared as God in the Bible.   Jesus isn't merely divinity.  That is a way trying weasel around the deity of Jesus.   Cultists will tell you that Jesus is "divine"  but not God.  When we say that Jesus is merely divine, it opens up the possibility that either Jesus is another god, or that Jesus was just a man granted divine powers.

 

Neither of those are true and believing either one will earn you a place in the Lake of Fire.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, inchrist.

 

Well that didn't take long for the thread to deteriate by the usual suspect

Retrobyter we havnt discussed much but none the less have followed alot of your posts which I've been impressed with...I am always impressed with someone who researches and digs for truth, i can see we will get on well.

To get to your question for me Lord Jesus Christ means the following and what he said and his animation of himself sums it up perfectly.

Matthew 12:49

And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!

Jesus full of passion, a hunger for a family, who would die to save his family. Jesus who isn't concerned about titles.

That' is what he means to me

 

Thank you for your answer. Sorry about the deterioration. Guess it comes with the territory.

[Willa]

I agree with others that Jesus claimed to be God when he said "before Abraham was, I AM".  John 8:58.  This is a clear reference to Ex. 3:14-15.  

The preface of most Bibles will tell you that YHWH is translated LORD in capital letters.  When used otherwise it is in small letters.  It would be more apparent if all large capitals were used or if YHWH were in a footnote each time.

 

But I compliment you on your research.  He who seeks shall find.  Don't forget to ask God to enlighten you as well, as Jesus says that is the job of the Holy Spirit.  We all need God's enlightenment  to understand Scripture.  John 16:13-15, 14:26 

 

Blessings,

Willa

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Qnts2.

...

I am quite familiar with the Shema and say it every week! After all, I’m a Messianic Jew. The question is this: You do realize, don’t you, that the word “Adonai” is not in the Shema? That’s haShem - the Name - the Tetragrammaton in the Shema! Jews always SAY “Adonai” although it’s not really there! I was referring to the ACTUAL Hebrew word transliterated as “Adonai” or “Adonay” vs. “Adoniy."

 

I only use Strong’s Concordance because it is familiar to so many who call themselves Christian. It’s also a way to specify exactly which word one is talking about. For instance, “Adoniy” is technically found at Strong’s OT:113, although it more closely resembles the first part of both OT:137 and OT:139, “Adonay” is found at Strong’s OT:136, and the Tetragrammaton, haShem, is found at Strong’s OT:3068. What I was talking about was the Hebrew spelling of OT:113 (or OT:137a or OT:139a) and the Hebrew spelling of OT:136.

 

OT:113 'aadown (aw-done'); or (shortened) 'aadon (aw-done'); from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):

KJV - lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-".

 

OT:136 'Adonaay (ad-o-noy'); am emphatic form of OT:113; the Lord (used as a proper name of God only):

KJV - (my) Lord.

 

OT:137 'Adoniy-Bezeq (ad-o''-nee-beh'-zek); from OT:113 and OT:966; lord of Bezek; Adoni-Bezek; a Canaanitish king:

KJV - Adoni-bezek.

 

OT:139 'Adoniy-Tsedeq (ad-o''-nee-tseh'-dek); from OT:113 and OT:6664; lord of justice; Adoni-Tsedek, a Canaanitish king:

KJV - Adonizedec.

 

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

See, the only difference between the two is in the vowel pointing and pronunciation. However, the vowel pointing didn’t come along until the 8th Century! Thus, BOTH words are spelled “alef-dalet-nun-yod!” (‘-D-N-Y!) They may have been pronounced differently depending of the CONTEXT, but they are basically the SAME WORD! They are CERTAINLY within the same family of words!

 

The ending “yod” shows first-person possessive, and if you really studied Hebrew, you would know that. The transliteration “-iy” or “-aay” means “MY!” Thus, “Adoniy” means “my Lord!” The difference between the pronunciation of “Adonaay” versus the pronunciation of “Adoniy” is that “Adonaay” is the EMPHATIC form! It’s EMPHASIZED! Thus, “Adoniy” means “my Lord”; “Adonaay” means “MY (only) Lord!"

[Qnts2]

Shalom, Qnts2.

...

I am quite familiar with the Shema and say it every week! After all, I’m a Messianic Jew. The question is this: You do realize, don’t you, that the word “Adonai” is not in the Shema? That’s haShem - the Name - the Tetragrammaton in the Shema! Jews always SAY “Adonai” although it’s not really there! I was referring to the ACTUAL Hebrew word transliterated as “Adonai” or “Adonay” vs. “Adoniy."

 

I only use Strong’s Concordance because it is familiar to so many who call themselves Christian. It’s also a way to specify exactly which word one is talking about. For instance, “Adoniy” is technically found at Strong’s OT:113, although it more closely resembles the first part of both OT:137 and OT:139, “Adonay” is found at Strong’s OT:136, and the Tetragrammaton, haShem, is found at Strong’s OT:3068. What I was talking about was the Hebrew spelling of OT:113 (or OT:137a or OT:139a) and the Hebrew spelling of OT:136.

 

OT:113 'aadown (aw-done'); or (shortened) 'aadon (aw-done'); from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):

KJV - lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-".

 

OT:136 'Adonaay (ad-o-noy'); am emphatic form of OT:113; the Lord (used as a proper name of God only):

KJV - (my) Lord.

 

OT:137 'Adoniy-Bezeq (ad-o''-nee-beh'-zek); from OT:113 and OT:966; lord of Bezek; Adoni-Bezek; a Canaanitish king:

KJV - Adoni-bezek.

 

OT:139 'Adoniy-Tsedeq (ad-o''-nee-tseh'-dek); from OT:113 and OT:6664; lord of justice; Adoni-Tsedek, a Canaanitish king:

KJV - Adonizedec.

 

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

See, the only difference between the two is in the vowel pointing and pronunciation. However, the vowel pointing didn’t come along until the 8th Century! Thus, BOTH words are spelled “alef-dalet-nun-yod!” (‘-D-N-Y!) They may have been pronounced differently depending of the CONTEXT, but they are basically the SAME WORD! They are CERTAINLY within the same family of words!

 

The ending “yod” shows first-person possessive, and if you really studied Hebrew, you would know that. The transliteration “-iy” or “-aay” means “MY!” Thus, “Adoniy” means “my Lord!” The difference between the pronunciation of “Adonaay” versus the pronunciation of “Adoniy” is that “Adonaay” is the EMPHATIC form! It’s EMPHASIZED! Thus, “Adoniy” means “my Lord”; “Adonaay” means “MY (only) Lord!"

 

Actually, vowel pointing in Hebrew came long before the Masoretes. The Masoretes used the existing vowel pointing, brought it down to a standard commonality (as there were variations), and added the pointing to the Torah. Of course, the is a debate in Judaism about the date of origin of the nikkudot. Many believe the existance goes back to Mt. Sinai.

 

As far as Adoni and Adonai, they both mean my lord/My Lord. The difference as I said is that Adoni is singular and Adonai is plural. My purpose in linking to a sight with the Shema is to show the commonly used spelling of Adonai. Adonay is used by concordances and are not used in the Jewish community.

 

Just as a side note. I might be wrong but I thought you denied the Deity of Jesus? Do I have that wrong?

[Retrobyter]

SHALOM, Qnts2.

 

 

Shalom, Qnts2.

...

I am quite familiar with the Shema and say it every week! After all, I’m a Messianic Jew. The question is this: You do realize, don’t you, that the word “Adonai” is not in the Shema? That’s haShem - the Name - the Tetragrammaton in the Shema! Jews always SAY “Adonai” although it’s not really there! I was referring to the ACTUAL Hebrew word transliterated as “Adonai” or “Adonay” vs. “Adoniy."

 

I only use Strong’s Concordance because it is familiar to so many who call themselves Christian. It’s also a way to specify exactly which word one is talking about. For instance, “Adoniy” is technically found at Strong’s OT:113, although it more closely resembles the first part of both OT:137 and OT:139, “Adonay” is found at Strong’s OT:136, and the Tetragrammaton, haShem, is found at Strong’s OT:3068. What I was talking about was the Hebrew spelling of OT:113 (or OT:137a or OT:139a) and the Hebrew spelling of OT:136.

 

OT:113 'aadown (aw-done'); or (shortened) 'aadon (aw-done'); from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):

KJV - lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-".

 

OT:136 'Adonaay (ad-o-noy'); am emphatic form of OT:113; the Lord (used as a proper name of God only):

KJV - (my) Lord.

 

OT:137 'Adoniy-Bezeq (ad-o''-nee-beh'-zek); from OT:113 and OT:966; lord of Bezek; Adoni-Bezek; a Canaanitish king:

KJV - Adoni-bezek.

 

OT:139 'Adoniy-Tsedeq (ad-o''-nee-tseh'-dek); from OT:113 and OT:6664; lord of justice; Adoni-Tsedek, a Canaanitish king:

KJV - Adonizedec.

 

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

See, the only difference between the two is in the vowel pointing and pronunciation. However, the vowel pointing didn’t come along until the 8th Century! Thus, BOTH words are spelled “alef-dalet-nun-yod!” (‘-D-N-Y!) They may have been pronounced differently depending of the CONTEXT, but they are basically the SAME WORD! They are CERTAINLY within the same family of words!

 

The ending “yod” shows first-person possessive, and if you really studied Hebrew, you would know that. The transliteration “-iy” or “-aay” means “MY!” Thus, “Adoniy” means “my Lord!” The difference between the pronunciation of “Adonaay” versus the pronunciation of “Adoniy” is that “Adonaay” is the EMPHATIC form! It’s EMPHASIZED! Thus, “Adoniy” means “my Lord”; “Adonaay” means “MY (only) Lord!"

 

Actually, vowel pointing in Hebrew came long before the Masoretes. The Masoretes used the existing vowel pointing, brought it down to a standard commonality (as there were variations), and added the pointing to the Torah. Of course, the is a debate in Judaism about the date of origin of the nikkudot. Many believe the existance goes back to Mt. Sinai.

 

As far as Adoni and Adonai, they both mean my lord/My Lord. The difference as I said is that Adoni is singular and Adonai is plural. My purpose in linking to a sight with the Shema is to show the commonly used spelling of Adonai. Adonay is used by concordances and are not used in the Jewish community.

 

Just as a side note. I might be wrong but I thought you denied the Deity of Jesus? Do I have that wrong?

 

 

That’s just dumb! Show me ONE document written before the 700s that was written with vowel pointing of ANY kind! You can’t because there AREN’T ANY! That’s like the old arguments about whether the moon was made of cheese! You can argue pointless arguments all you want all day long without any evidence pro or con, but it’s a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! So, save the side-tracking for someone who cares.

 

And, you used an article to the Shema purely to show me how “Adonai” is usually transliterated into English, even though you KNOW that the word “Adonai” is not ACTUALLY found in the Hebrew of the Shema? Wow. What did THAT prove? Answer: It proved NOTHING of consequence!

 

Look, I have a very specific method of transliteration that many people do NOT use. SO WHAT? It was developed from the transliteration schema of Biblesoft’s PC Study Bible program. With it, I can tell you how a Hebrew word was spelled by my transliteration schema, most of the time right down to the simple vowel pointing: A vowel beginning a word means “alef” ( ‘ ) is at the beginning of the word; an “A” or “a” stands for the “patach” vowel sound; a “D” or “d” stands for the “dalet"; the “O” or “o” stands for the “cholem" vowel sound; the “N” or “n” stands for a “nun” (or “nun sofit” at the end of the word); an “Aa” or “aa” stands for the “qamets” vowel sound, and the “Y” or “y” stands for the “yod."

 

So, when I write “Adonaay” the transliteration tells me EXACTLY how I found the word written in the Hebrew text, "alef-(patach)-dalet-(cholem)-nun-(qamets)-yod." The only things it doesn’t tell me are the finer points of chataf segol, chataf qamets, and chataf tsere, the combinations of the shva and the segol, qamets, and tsere, respectively.

 

How can “Adonai” be plural? It’s not following ANY of the rules for a plural word in masculine (-iym) or feminine (-owt)! Sorry, but I don’t know where you’re getting your information. Now, “ELOHIYM" is plural, but not “Adonai."

 

Yes, you have that wrong; I do NOT deny the deity of the Logos; HOWEVER, that being said, one must also face the fact that Yeshua`, while being the Logos incarnate, is LIMITED by the body formed for Him! He’s limited to a particular place, to a particular volume of space, to a particular weight, to particular dimensions of length, width, and height, to a particular time period in history, and to the prophecies regarding that body! Even today in His glorified body, He is still bound by those limitations. That’s why it was said of Him that He would return just as His disciples saw Him leave. 

 

 

To use the fact/analogy that Yochanan used in the book of Yeshua`s Revelation (21:23), while God is light (Greek: foos), Yeshua` is the LAMP (Greek: luchnos)! Today, we might say that Yeshua` is the lightbulb - the localized SOURCE of that light! As such, Yeshua` is both God and man, but by limiting Himself to our frame of reference, He is indeed the LINK between God and man, the Advocate for sinners and the Mediator between God and man.

[Guest shiloh357]

That's a lie, Retro...  You have repeatedly denied the deity of Jesus.   You need to tell the truth.   You have clearly denied, multiple times, that Jesus is God.

[Righttruth]

Shalom, everyone.

 

The phrase is “the Lord Jesus Christ.” What does that mean to you? What do these names/titles mean? Just how much do you know about in whom you say you believe? Break it down.

 

The Lord indicates His divine power, Jesus indicates His incarnation and Christ, of course, Messiah.

[thereselittleflower]

That's a lie, Retro...  You have repeatedly denied the deity of Jesus.   You need to tell the truth.   You have clearly denied, multiple times, that Jesus is God.

 

 

You're saying Jesus was not limited while on earth?

 

If Jesus was not limited on earth, how is it he did not now the time of his second coming?

 

 

 Mark 13:32

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

 

You are way to free with your judgements and denoncements of others.

 

 

He is right saying Jesus experienced limitations during his ministry.   He has not denied the deity of Christ by acknowledging the limitations God the Son experienced as fully man.