what is the way.. for who died without hearing gospel.

[Ezra]

It is not universalism to trust God that He is more than able to provide a way for those who have not heard the gospel may be saved through Jesus His Son.    Whatever way that is, one would still have to choose.

 Do you notice the absurdity of this statement?  How can anyone be saved "through Jesus His Son" without hearing the Gospel?  The Gospel IS the Good News or Glad Tidings that sinners may be saved "through Jesus His Son". 

[thereselittleflower]

 

It is not universalism to trust God that He is more than able to provide a way for those who have not heard the gospel may be saved through Jesus His Son.    Whatever way that is, one would still have to choose.

 Do you notice the absurdity of this statement?  How can anyone be saved "through Jesus His Son" without hearing the Gospel?  The Gospel IS the Good News or Glad Tidings that sinners may be saved "through Jesus His Son". 

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that God can't reveal the gospel of Jesus to someone without someone else telling them about it?

 

Jesus, when he was told to hush the people at his triumphal entry, said if they did not cry out, the very stones would cry out.

 

 

Luke 19:40

 

He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.” 

 

 

 

If God can make the very stones cry out, who are we to limit how God reveals the gospel to others?

[Ezra]

Christians do not have the right or the authority to depart from what is plainly stated in Scripture.  And this is what we read in Romans 10:14-18:

¹⁴ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

¹⁵ And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

¹⁶ But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

¹⁷ So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

¹⁸ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

According to Scripture the Gospel has been heard in "all the earth".  But some have not obeyed the Gospel.  And unless sinners obey the Gospel they cannot be saved, for it is not be works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy that we are saved (Tit 3:5).

 

[thereselittleflower]

Christians do not have the right or the authority to depart from what is plainly stated in Scripture.  And this is what we read in Romans 10:14-18:

¹⁴ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

¹⁵ And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

¹⁶ But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

¹⁷ So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

¹⁸ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

According to Scripture the Gospel has been heard in "all the earth".  But some have not obeyed the Gospel.  And unless sinners obey the Gospel they cannot be saved, for it is not be works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy that we are saved (Tit 3:5).

 

Obviously that had not yet happened by the time Paul penned those words.

 

 

Taking what you said at the top, if we have no right or authority to depart from what is plainly stated in the scriptures,  do you hold to all the traditions taught by the apostles whether in writing or by mouth as  Paul commands?

 

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15

 

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

[Ezra]

Taking what you said at the top, if we have no right or authority to depart from what is plainly stated in the scriptures, do you hold to all the traditions taught by the apostles whether in writing or by mouth as Paul commands?

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

 

To answer the question in one word "Absolutely".  When we read of the "traditions taught by the apostles" we need to dig deeper.  That word translated as "traditions" is the Greek paradoseis from paradosis which means "that which is handed down". 

 

So what was it that was handed down by the apostles and who was their Teacher?  After His resurrection, Christ opened the Scriptures to His apostles and personally taught them what they needed to know for 40 days.  After that the Holy Spirit taught the apostles. After that Christ personally taught Paul many things which even the other apostles were not aware of.  So "the traditions of the apostles" are in fact the teachings of Christ -- DIVINE REVELATION -- as opposed to "the traditions of the elders" or "the doctrines of men".

 

Let's take one example.  The "traditionalist" churches such as the Orthodox and the RCC have a man-made priesthood.  They claim that this is according to "Holy Tradition".  But since the traditions of the apostles cannot contradict Scripture, you will never find the elders (presbyters) referred to as priests in the NT.  The New Testament teaches the priesthood of all believers.

[thereselittleflower]

 

Taking what you said at the top, if we have no right or authority to depart from what is plainly stated in the scriptures, do you hold to all the traditions taught by the apostles whether in writing or by mouth as Paul commands?

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

 

To answer the question in one word "Absolutely".  When we read of the "traditions taught by the apostles" we need to dig deeper.  That word translated as "traditions" is the Greek paradoseis from paradosis which means "that which is handed down". 

 

So what was it that was handed down by the apostles and who was their Teacher?  After His resurrection, Christ opened the Scriptures to His apostles and personally taught them what they needed to know for 40 days.  After that the Holy Spirit taught the apostles. After that Christ personally taught Paul many things which even the other apostles were not aware of.  So "the traditions of the apostles" are in fact the teachings of Christ -- DIVINE REVELATION -- as opposed to "the traditions of the elders" or "the doctrines of men".

 

Let's take one example.  The "traditionalist" churches such as the Orthodox and the RCC have a man-made priesthood.  They claim that this is according to "Holy Tradition".  But since the traditions of the apostles cannot contradict Scripture, you will never find the elders (presbyters) referred to as priests in the NT.  The New Testament teaches the priesthood of all believers.

 

 

 

How do you know you have all of what was handed down?

[Guest shiloh357]

Everything we need to know is in the Bible.   The Bible alone is the rule of Christian faith and practice.  If it is not in the Bible, we are not obligated to it. 

[FresnoJoe]

How do you know you have all of what was handed down?

 

~

 

Because

 

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 John 5:10

 

It Is

 

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

 

True

 

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1 John 5:14-15

 

~

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

[thereselittleflower]

 

How do you know you have all of what was handed down?

 

~

 

Because

 

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 John 5:10

 

It Is

 

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

 

True

 

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1 John 5:14-15

 

~

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

 

Dearest Joe,     Do you also believe you hear and understand the Holy Spirit infallibly?

[Guest shiloh357]

No one hears the Holy Spirit infallibly.   No one.   That is a ridiculous question.   We have the Scriptures.  The Bible is final arbiter on all matters of Christian faith and practice.