Book of Enoch

[thereselittleflower]

 

The Apocrypha is not Scripture.  It contains numerous historical and theological errors and was never quoted by the Apostles.  

 

The book of Enoch  may have been quoted a times by the NT writers, but it was for the purpose of making a didactic point. They, at no time, elevated it to Scripture.

none of the writings from within the roman abomination as a source

is for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ nor Good News to any soul -

it is all deception through and through as it always has been since constantine

and it is all for promoting the foul detestable power behind the beast, the devil.

even when the devil quoted scripture or quoted yahweh,

it was for the purpose of kill, steal and destroy;

and thus yahweh says if someone continues in that which is opposed to Christ,

and continues in error and  won't repent yet calls themself a believer,

disfellowship them - don't talk with them; don't greet them; don't have a meal with them, LEST YOU SHARE IN THEIR SIN.....

so

we somehow must expose the sin of the known heresy,

without acting as if any part of the heresy is 'okay' to dabble in....

talking, posting, discussing it is without purpose - if they will not change

and repent of their sin of promoting heresy of the roman abomination,

 

it is not our job nor is it right according to Scripture to try to correct them 

since they have already refused the correction of Scripture and

they have already rejected God.

 

 

 

Jeff your claims are very confusinig.  

 

You claim the Roman Church started with Constantine.  That is in the 4th century.

 

So according to you, the Roman Catholic Church didn't even exist untill the 4th century.

 

I've provided you writings from the Early Church Fathers in the 2nd century, 2 centuries before the Roman Catholic Church, according to you, began.

 

How can these writings have anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church you so despise?

 

And how is it that if the Roman Catholic Church is so evil, that it is the source of your New Testament, for the Catholic Church decided the canon of the New Testament in the late 4th, early 5th centuries?

 

You said

 

"none of the writings from within the roman abomination as a source

is for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ nor Good News to any soul -"

 

 

Why are you using the New Testament the Catholic Church decided upon then?   Why are you using the list of books the Catholic Councils decided upon for the New Testament?   Why are you using the writings of those lists if everything that came from the Catholic Church is an abominatoin?  Surely also that list is an abomination too?

 

So why do you follow that list as to what is and is not to be regarded as scripture?

 

 

Your polemics are quite confusing.

[FresnoJoe]

are there other 'closet' catholics here also,  or is this the only one ?   if there aren't others,  why has this one been allowed to post support for the heresy of catholicism for so long ? (look in the online record - for years)

 

it is not just catholics who need to repent.  everyone on earth needs to repent, just like those of us currently standing up for the truth against the lie here, 

we had to repent also,  sometimes frequently,

to repent of all the heresy of the papacy , in and out of rome, no matter where it is or was found;

to repent of any trust we had in the flesh, in the devil himself, the pope, or in the doctrines of the heresy, or the practices of it --- they have infiltrated many groups on earth;  and it all needs to be repented of,

or the truth cannot be known.

 

~

 

Beloved,

If A Brother

Or A Sister Claims Christ As Their LORD And Savior

They Are Both Welcome Here And Treasured As The Beloved Of The KING

 

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

 

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10:8-11

 

We Are Privileged, Delighted And Blessed

To Count Many From The RCC

Who Claim The Blood

As Eternal Kin,

As Family By The Blood Of Jesus

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

But, If Some Fellow Or Another Then Comes Along And Goes All Pontifical

With Curses And Harassment, Spitting Hatred For The Beloved

The Harasser Will No Doubt Get The Boot

And The Peace Of Christ

Will Reign Again

 

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

 

~

 

Beloved,

 

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

 

If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

 

But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 2 Timothy 2:19-23

 

I Pray This Is Of Some Help

 

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

 

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

 

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2:24-26

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Qnts2]

My dear Q

 

I understand you believe I am wrong.   Would you like to produce authoritative sources that back up your claims so we can examine them?

 

There is nothing in those scriptures which tell us which language the scriptures were written in.  All of those, Moses, the Prophets, Psalms,  were in the Greek Septuagint.

 

Do you understand what the Greek Septuagint actually is?    Do you understand we are talking about a Greek TRANSLATION that contains all the old testament books in your bible?

 

 

Do you understand these jewish rabbis, at the end of the 1st. beginning of the 2nd century, created a NEW Greek translation?

 

 

Why would they create a new Greek translation if one wasn't needed - if it isn't rue most of the Jewish people didn't read or speak Hebrew?

 

 

Why do the scriptures tell us about the Greek speaking Jews?

 

 

 

Maccabees was and is indeed part of canonized scripture and still is for many christians, and for the Ethiopian Jews.  This is a matter of history.

 

 

Where do you think you believe your bible comes from?

 

The story of the Septuagint is told in Judaism. There is one story which is not varified but from that story, we can come to the truth.

 

In the legend, the Ptolemaic dynasty was a Greek dynasty which ruled over Egypt. In Alexandrian Egypt, they had formed the greatest library of the world of that time and sought to include copies of the great books from around the world. That is accurate. They brought 70 Rabbis and told them that they must translate the Torah (5 books of Moses) into Greek against their will. The 70 Rabbis were kept in separate cells and each was to translate. The translations had to match exactly or they could be punished or put to death. According to the legend, miraculously, they all matched perfectly. The name Septuagint comes from the fact that 70 Rabbis were used to do the translation. So, we do know they were brought to translate for the Alexandrian library. And that they translated the Torah. That is upheld in history by every source, although some say there were 72 Rabbis. This was done around 300 bce.

 

After that translation, there was no formal effort to translate the Neviim or Ketuvim. A few of the books were translated by Jewish people but most were translated by Gentiles after Christianity spread. You will find history attesting to the fact that there were multiple translations of the same book, many obviously done by people who were not well versed in Hebrew. These translations all varied and most were very poorly done. It was at this point the Judaism, which worked to maintain the integrity of the OT, became concerned about the corruption and abandoned the use of the Septuagint in Judaism.  

 

The Jewish Rabbis did not create a 2nd century Greek translation. It was in the 2nd century that Judaism completely abandoned use of the Septuagint. Even the Alexandrian Greek speaking Jews abandoned the Septuagint because of questionable translations and used the Hebrew or Aramaic.

[FresnoJoe]

Where do you think....

you believe your bible comes from....

 

 

Where I Think

 

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. Romans 3:1-2 (NIV)

 

I Believe My Bible Comes From

 

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV)

[thereselittleflower]

Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe?

 

 

Who decided what books should be in the New Testament?

[missmuffet]

Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe?

 

 

Who decided what books should be in the New Testament?

Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?"

Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html

[FresnoJoe]

Did the bible fall out of a typewriter in the sky my dear brother Joe?

 

 

Is God A "Can Do" God

 

For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21 (ESV)

 

My Beloved

 

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 2 Peter 1:3-4 (ESV)

 

Sister....

 

The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent. Exodus 33:11 (NIV)

 

~

 

PS: The Bible Came To Us Down From Heaven Above Through The Jew

 

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Romans 3:1-2

 

Even The LORD

 

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35

 

Who Came Down

 

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21

 

From Heaven

 

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:12-13

 

With The Words Of Life For

 

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:14-15

 

Whosoever Will

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Believe

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

Beloved, Now Ain't That Something~!

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[thereselittleflower]

Dear Joe  you are expertly avoiding my question.  

[thereselittleflower]

 

Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe?

 

 

Who decided what books should be in the New Testament?

Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?"

Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html

 

 

 

Those councils your source mentions in the last paragraph, when did those councils occur?

[FresnoJoe]

Dear Joe  you are expertly avoiding my question.  

 

~

 

Beloved, It Is A Terrible Thing To Have The Plain Word Of God

 

For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21 (ESV)

 

Close Up Tight

 

For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I can’t; it is sealed.” Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I don’t know how to read.” Isaiah 29:11-12 (NIV)

 

PS:

No Matter What Bible Unbelievers

(And Yes They Den Up In Churches Too) Tell You

The Bible Did Indeed "Fall" Out Of Heaven

Beloved, Don't Let Men Steal Your

Birthright

 

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers.

 

Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

 

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, practice it to be holy.

 

It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

 

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword, and the Christian’s character.

 

Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

 

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end.

 

It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.

 

Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.

 

It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

 

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment and will be remembered forever.

 

It Involves the highest responsibility, will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

 

From The Front Of My Gideon New Testamen