What is partaking of Homosexuality?

[Ezra]

 

 I am trying to understand the difference between Partaking in the sin and being around sinners.

That's comparing apples and oranges.  We are around sinners daily and constantly.  But we do not participate in their activities or encourage them in their sins.  That's how simple it is. As to the water being turned into "wine" (a) Christ condemns drunkenness, so there must be another explanation and (b) Bible wines have a wide variety of meanings, from pure grape juice to strong alcoholic drinks.

[firestormx]

 

 I am trying to understand the difference between Partaking in the sin and being around sinners.

That's comparing apples and oranges.  We are around sinners daily and constantly.  But we do not participate in their activities or encourage them in their sins.  That's how simple it is. As to the water being turned into "wine" (a) Christ condemns drunkenness, so there must be another explanation and (b) Bible wines have a wide variety of meanings, from pure grape juice to strong alcoholic drinks.

Ok, fair enough. But what is actually in the bible is Man is not lay ( have sex ) with another man like he would a woman, and likewise for the women. So, since baking a cake is NOT having homosexual sex, where is the line. When does it become Partaking of homosexual sex by being around them? What activities should be forbidden to partake in ( let's say at a family reunion ) because it condones homosexuality? From strictly a BIBLICAL stand point where is the line?

[Guest shiloh357]

The bible says we as Christians are not to partake in the sins of another. Homosexuality is a sin. So why is baking a cake for them sin or against Christian beliefs? What I am having trouble with is this. Jesus was called a drunk and a glutton and a friend of sinners because that's who he was around most of the time. One of his first miracles in the book of John is turning water in to wine at a wedding after everyone had gotten drunk. If Jesus can create wine and be at a wedding where people are going to drink the wine he just made ( after they have already been drinking a good while ) to get drunk. If Jesus can be around " sinners " all the time to the point that people call Jesus a drunk and a glutton , Then why is it wrong to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

 

Firestormx

Marriage is God's domain.  He created marriage.   Gay who wed do not have a marriage because God and God alone defines what marriage is.  Gay "marriage"  is a perversion of God's prescription for marriage and human sexuality and he calls it an abomination.   That would include anything in the peripheral that goes with it, such as wedding cakes, photography, and providing any other goods an services to facilitate that kind of event.

We as believers cannot, biblically, lend our resources/services to facilitate and enable what God has stated clearly that he hates.

This has nothing in common with Jesus being willing to seen with sinners.   Jesus didn't avoid sinners, but Jesus didn't participate in, or enable their sinful habits or lifestyle.    Jesus was called a glutton and drunk by his enemies, those who were lying to discredit him all of the time.  You can't go by their words.   Jesus was neither a glutton nor a drunk.  It was just a slander that was issued against Jesus when they couldn't find a legitimate reason to hate him.

What about Jesus making the wine at the wedding, wasn't that enabling the people at the wedding to get drunk?

It's important to understand that wine in those days was not near as strong as what we produce to day.  They relied on only natural fermentation which has a much, much lower alcohol content than our modern processes.    So it is not the case that Jesus was enabling anyone to get drunk, any more than multiplying the bread and fish was enabling people to over eat.  The alcoholic content of drinks in Bible times and what they considered "strong drink"  would be  like drinking water when compared to the proof levels of modern alcoholic beverages of today.

[firestormx]

The bible says we as Christians are not to partake in the sins of another. Homosexuality is a sin. So why is baking a cake for them sin or against Christian beliefs? What I am having trouble with is this. Jesus was called a drunk and a glutton and a friend of sinners because that's who he was around most of the time. One of his first miracles in the book of John is turning water in to wine at a wedding after everyone had gotten drunk. If Jesus can create wine and be at a wedding where people are going to drink the wine he just made ( after they have already been drinking a good while ) to get drunk. If Jesus can be around " sinners " all the time to the point that people call Jesus a drunk and a glutton , Then why is it wrong to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

 

Firestormx

Marriage is God's domain.  He created marriage.   Gay who wed do not have a marriage because God and God alone defines what marriage is.  Gay "marriage"  is a perversion of God's prescription for marriage and human sexuality and he calls it an abomination.   That would include anything in the peripheral that goes with it, such as wedding cakes, photography, and providing any other goods an services to facilitate that kind of event.

We as believers cannot, biblically, lend our resources/services to facilitate and enable what God has stated clearly that he hates.

This has nothing in common with Jesus being willing to seen with sinners.   Jesus didn't avoid sinners, but Jesus didn't participate in, or enable their sinful habits or lifestyle.    Jesus was called a glutton and drunk by his enemies, those who were lying to discredit him all of the time.  You can't go by their words.   Jesus was neither a glutton nor a drunk.  It was just a slander that was issued against Jesus when they couldn't find a legitimate reason to hate him.

What about Jesus making the wine at the wedding, wasn't that enabling the people at the wedding to get drunk?

It's important to understand that wine in those days was not near as strong as what we produce to day.  They relied on only natural fermentation which has a much, much lower alcohol content than our modern processes.    So it is not the case that Jesus was enabling anyone to get drunk, any more than multiplying the bread and fish was enabling people to over eat.  The alcoholic content of drinks in Bible times and what they considered "strong drink"  would be  like drinking water when compared to the proof levels of modern alcoholic beverages of today.

Ok, fair enough, I understand your point. The bread and fish reference was a good one. Makes think about motive and where the heart is will make a big difference in how you view things. I guess my problem is I don't see how baking a cake is partaking of homosexual sex. To be honest, I guess it is a little bit of the hypocrisy of this that is bothering me as well. Why don't we get this hot and bothered over adultery or any other sin that is so rampant in the USA these days. Anyways, thanks for the input.

[Guest shiloh357]

No one is saying that baking a wedding cake for a gay marriage is participating in the sin of homosexuality.  It is a sin to enable people to do what God hates.    If  knowingly provide you with a gun to commit a crime, I am enabling you to commit that crime even if I am not actively participating in that crime.   Same goes for this.

I don't agree that there is any hypocrisy here at all.   Hypocrisy is the act of condemning in others what we justify in ourselves.   If I condemn you for baking a gay wedding cake while I am catering the rehearsal dinner for a gay wedding then I am a hypocrite.

I also do not agree that we are more bothered by this than adultery.  I don't think you can make that case.   Adulterers are not out trying to legalize adultery.  Adulterers are not throwing their sin in our face and forcing us to accept their sin or face legal and punitive damages.   No one is calling adultery a "sexual orientation."

The reason we give homosexuals so much attention is because THEY are forcing their sin into the public square and demanding we have to agree with their lifestyle or else we are bigots.    They want to be treated like a minority, as if they are like African Americans or some other ethnic minority.   They want special, legal, minority status simply on the basis of how they have sex.

Back in the 80's and 90's abortion was the major moral issue of the day.  LGBT is a new thing and we live in a world where the culture is almost militant about this and Christian are forced to address it more, because they are more militant against us than ever before.   So the extra attention it gets from Christians is directly proportional to the rise of the militancy of the gay rights movement.

[firestormx]

No one is saying that baking a wedding cake for a gay marriage is participating in the sin of homosexuality.  It is a sin to enable people to do what God hates.    If  knowingly provide you with a gun to commit a crime, I am enabling you to commit that crime even if I am not actively participating in that crime.   Same goes for this.

I  thank you for taking the time to clarify you point of view. One more question if you don't mind. Do you believe it is a sin for a christian to bake a wedding cake for a gay marriage ? From your POV does baking a wedding cake enable homosexual sex? If baking the cake is not participating in the sin of homosexuality then why is it wrong to bake the cake? 

[Guest shiloh357]

Is it a sin for me to buy you a handgun if I know you will take  it and use it to commit a crime?    The same principle applies.   It is a sin for me to enable to you disobey God.   God hates homosexuality and so it follows that if enable someone to facilitate that lifestyle in any way, then I am sinning.  I would be helping you rebel against God and I would be doing so knowingly.  Helping another person remain comfortable in their sin, by baking a gay wedding cake would be a sin.

[Hall7]

I think that whatever we do as a Christian needs to be done in good heart in the name of the Lord. We as Christians know that gay marriage is against the Word of God, so how could a Christian bake a cake in good heart for a gay marriage if he/she knows that gay marriage is against the word of God. Unless a Christian believes that gay marriage is acceptable, then in his/her mind will have accomplished something good in God's eyes.

[Hall7]

The answer is answered with a simple question. Would Jesus bake a cake for a gay wedding?

[Ezra]

 From strictly a BIBLICAL stand point where is the line?

Let's get down to cases. You own a bakery and a homosexual couple walks in, identifies themselves, claims that they are getting married, and want you to bake the wedding cake.

All you have to do is say that you are a Christian and that you will not take their order because it violates your religious beliefs. Why? Because in God's eyes and in Christ's eyes, homosexuality is a sin (and even under the law not too long ago, it was a crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States), therefore that would be partaking of their sins.  So they say, Where does it say that this is a sin?  So you show them the Scriptures and stand firm.  Perhaps the Holy Spirit convicts them, and they repent, and are converted because you stood firm.  Note what James has to say (James 5:20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.