what is the biblically correct response to a specific crime by spouse

[Guest shiloh357]

 

This topic came up in our household based on the subway spokesman charges. Im curious what your responses are.

 

A spouse looks at inappropriate material (child porn) but does not engage in it with anyone. Only views it online. Obviously a crime and needs to be dealt with. What is a biblically correct response by the spouse? Is it acceptable biblically to divorce the spouse in this instance? 

 

 

 

 

(Minor rant. Jadey hates having to scroll allllll the way down just to start a topic.)

The Greek word fornication is the same word we use today for pornography.   Fornication/Pornication, is the same sin, biblically.   Sexual immorality begins in the heart and pornography of any stripe qualifies as marital infidelity even if one is not physically with another person.   Viewing pornography is done for sexual gratification and it means indicates what you would be willing to do IF that person had actually been in the room with you.  It is adultery from the heart.

I am not asking you to actually give a yes or no answer in the thread, but here is something to think about.  Is there anyone here who can honestly say they have never in their life looked upon someone and had lustful thoughts?  If you have had lustful thoughts, do you really see yourself as the equal of the man or woman who cheats on their spouse?  I know I don't see it as the same thing.  Then comes another question.  Again, don't answer yes or no in the thread.  Have you ever watched anything that could be considered pornographic in your life, whether it be soft core or hard core?  If you have ever done so, do you see it as the equal of actually committing the acts you viewed on the screen?  I know I don't.  As such, I don't see looking at pornography as the same thing as marital infidelity. 

Having lustful thought and entertaining that lustful thought are not the same thing.   You can have a thought come into your mind, but how you respond to it is what's important.  Do you ruminate over I, or do you cast it out?  It's not a sin to be tempted; it's sin to entertain the temptation.

All of us have been at a theatre and have seen immoral scenes in a movie.   That is not the same thing as going on your computer and entering the names or keywords for pornography sites and intentionally looking up porn for the purpose of sexual gratification.  It's not the same as walking into an adult movie/bookstore and purchasing such things.

I think the context of the conversation has to do with the intentional act, not the occasional and in many cases, accidental exposure to immorality.  It is how you respond to sin that makes the difference.

[Guest shiloh357]

But all one has to do to be guilty of adultery in your heart is look upon a woman to lust.  Jesus didn't say you chose to seek her out to lust after her.  David didn't set out to commit adultery with Bathsheba.  He saw her and lust came into his heart.  Had he stopped there, he would have been much better off and less guilty than calling her over and sleeping with her.  Lust in itself is wrong, but I don't see it as the same as the actual sex act. 

Lusting after a woman amounts to entertaining sin in your heart.   I notice great looking women all of the time.  But I also look away and ask the Lord to guard my heart.   It's not a sin to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex.   God hard wired us to notice.   It would be weird if you didn't notice.    It's what comes after that.   You can't help the first look; you CAN help the second look. 

Even if you don't seek it out, sin will find you and temptation will ensue and just like David didn't seek out Bathsheba, but David could have looked away.  He could covered his eyes and went inside the second he saw her.   Regardless if you seek it out or not, it's what you do with sin that makes the difference.

Lust is a sexual act in the heart.  It is an imagining of what you want to do with that person and that is where sin begins.   Jesus did equate lust with the physical act of adultery when he said that if you lust after a woman who is not your wife, adultery has already occurred in your heart.  From God's perspective, that's just as bad as the physical act. 

[Guest shiloh357]

But all one has to do to be guilty of adultery in your heart is look upon a woman to lust.  Jesus didn't say you chose to seek her out to lust after her.  David didn't set out to commit adultery with Bathsheba.  He saw her and lust came into his heart.  Had he stopped there, he would have been much better off and less guilty than calling her over and sleeping with her.  Lust in itself is wrong, but I don't see it as the same as the actual sex act. 

Lusting after a woman amounts to entertaining sin in your heart.   I notice great looking women all of the time.  But I also look away and ask the Lord to guard my heart.   It's not a sin to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex.   God hard wired us to notice.   It would be weird if you didn't notice.    It's what comes after that.   You can't help the first look; you CAN help the second look. 

Even if you don't seek it out, sin will find you and temptation will ensue and just like David didn't seek out Bathsheba, but David could have looked away.  He could covered his eyes and went inside the second he saw her.   Regardless if you seek it out or not, it's what you do with sin that makes the difference.

Lust is a sexual act in the heart.  It is an imagining of what you want to do with that person and that is where sin begins.   Jesus did equate lust with the physical act of adultery when he said that if you lust after a woman who is not your wife, adultery has already occurred in your heart.  From God's perspective, that's just as bad as the physical act. 

I agree that it is sin in the sight of God.  I just disagree with those who claim it is grounds for divorce.  Even in states where you must show cause to get a divorce, you have to prove adultery actually took place.  Simply having desired to commit adultery isn't grounds in a court of law.  In the law of Moses, you didn't stone a person to death for desiring to commit adultery.  They had to commit the act, and there had to be witnesses.  I am not disagreeing with you about the sinfulness of pornography or lust. 

True, there are legal hurdles as our society probably doesn't see pornography as the same kind of marital wrecking ball that we see it as.   But it is a form of fornication and it is martial infidelity on a spiritual and emotional level.    If I were married to a woman and discovered that she had been using porn, I would wonder what else she has been doing and I would definitely consider divorce on those grounds, if possible.  If not, we would still separate.   If you are engaging in porn, you will have a hard case to make that you love your spouse.

[missmuffet]

This is Biblical grounds for divorce shiloh.Divorce should not be taken lightly unless you want a good excuse to put the guy or woman out of your life.

 

Question: "What are biblical grounds for divorce?"

Answer: When discussing what the Bible says about divorce, it is important to keep in mind the words of Malachi 2:16, “I hate divorce, says the Lord God.” Whatever grounds the Bible possibly gives for divorce, that does not mean God desires a divorce to occur in those instances. Rather than asking “is ______ a grounds for divorce,” often the question should be “is _______ grounds for forgiveness, restoration, and/or counseling?”

The Bible gives two clear grounds for divorce: (1) sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32; 19:9) and (2) abandonment by an unbeliever (1 Corinthians 7:15). Even in these two instances, though, divorce is not required or even encouraged. The most that can be said is that sexual immorality and abandonment are grounds (an allowance) for divorce. Confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration are always the first steps. Divorce should only be viewed as a last resort.

Are there any grounds for divorce beyond what the Bible explicitly says? Perhaps, but we do not presume upon the Word of God. It is very dangerous to go beyond what the Bible says (1 Corinthians 4:6). The most frequent additional grounds for divorce that people inquire about are spousal abuse (emotional or physical), child abuse, addiction to pornography, drug / alcohol use, crime / imprisonment, and mismanagement of finances (such as through a gambling addiction). None of these can be claimed to be explicit biblical grounds for a divorce.

That does not necessarily mean, though, that none of them are grounds for divorce which God would approve of. For example, we cannot imagine that it would be God’s desire for a wife to remain with a husband who physically abuses her and/or their children. In such an instance, the wife should definitely separate herself and the children from the abusive husband. However, even in such a situation, a time of separation with the goal of repentance and restoration should be the ideal, not necessarily immediately beginning divorce proceedings. Please understand, by saying that the above are not biblical grounds for divorce, we are definitely not saying that a man/woman whose spouse is engaging in such activities should remain in the situation. If there is any risk to self or children, separation is a good and appropriate step.

Another way to look at this issue is to differentiate between biblical grounds for divorce and biblical grounds for divorce and remarriage. Some interpret the two biblical grounds for divorce mentioned above as the only grounds for remarriage after a divorce, but allow for divorce with no remarriage in other instances. While this is a plausible interpretation, it seems to come too close to presuming upon the Word of God. For more information, please read the following two articles:
http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/divorced-remarry.html

In summary, what are the biblical grounds for divorce? The answer is sexual immorality and abandonment. Are there additional grounds for divorce beyond these two? Possibly. Is divorce ever to be treated lightly or employed as the first recourse? Absolutely not. God is capable of changing and reforming any person. God is capable of healing and renewing any marriage. Divorce should only occur in instances of repeated and unrepentant heinous sin.

http://www.gotquestions.org/grounds-for-divorce.html

Edited August 22, 2015 by bopeep1909

[thereselittleflower]

But all one has to do to be guilty of adultery in your heart is look upon a woman to lust.  Jesus didn't say you chose to seek her out to lust after her.  David didn't set out to commit adultery with Bathsheba.  He saw her and lust came into his heart.  Had he stopped there, he would have been much better off and less guilty than calling her over and sleeping with her.  Lust in itself is wrong, but I don't see it as the same as the actual sex act. 

Lusting after a woman amounts to entertaining sin in your heart.   I notice great looking women all of the time.  But I also look away and ask the Lord to guard my heart.   It's not a sin to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex.   God hard wired us to notice.   It would be weird if you didn't notice.    It's what comes after that.   You can't help the first look; you CAN help the second look. 

Even if you don't seek it out, sin will find you and temptation will ensue and just like David didn't seek out Bathsheba, but David could have looked away.  He could covered his eyes and went inside the second he saw her.   Regardless if you seek it out or not, it's what you do with sin that makes the difference.

Lust is a sexual act in the heart.  It is an imagining of what you want to do with that person and that is where sin begins.   Jesus did equate lust with the physical act of adultery when he said that if you lust after a woman who is not your wife, adultery has already occurred in your heart.  From God's perspective, that's just as bad as the physical act. 

I agree that it is sin in the sight of God.  I just disagree with those who claim it is grounds for divorce.  Even in states where you must show cause to get a divorce, you have to prove adultery actually took place.  Simply having desired to commit adultery isn't grounds in a court of law.  In the law of Moses, you didn't stone a person to death for desiring to commit adultery.  They had to commit the act, and there had to be witnesses.  I am not disagreeing with you about the sinfulness of pornography or lust. 

I never said it was grounds for divorce.  

I said we should be more concerned with the eternal state of the spouse rather than the legal crimes they commit.

 

That means loving our spouse as Christ loves us.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[enoob57]

 

This topic came up in our household based on the subway spokesman charges. Im curious what your responses are.

 

A spouse looks at inappropriate material (child porn) but does not engage in it with anyone. Only views it online. Obviously a crime and needs to be dealt with. What is a biblically correct response by the spouse? Is it acceptable biblically to divorce the spouse in this instance? 

 

 

 

 

(Minor rant. Jadey hates having to scroll allllll the way down just to start a topic.)

The Greek word fornication is the same word we use today for pornography.   Fornication/Pornication, is the same sin, biblically.   Sexual immorality begins in the heart and pornography of any stripe qualifies as marital infidelity even if one is not physically with another person.   Viewing pornography is done for sexual gratification and it means indicates what you would be willing to do IF that person had actually been in the room with you.  It is adultery from the heart.

Child porn is a felony and the kind of person would engage in that kind of immorality is not a person anyone should want to be married to.   If a woman catches her husband in any kind of porn, including child porn is well within her rights biblically to divorce him.

I am in total agreement with this... not that that matters   but there it is ...

[Guest shiloh357]

This is Biblical grounds for divorce shiloh.Divorce should not be taken lightly unless you want a good excuse to put the guy or woman out of your life.

 

Question: "What are biblical grounds for divorce?"

Answer: When discussing what the Bible says about divorce, it is important to keep in mind the words of Malachi 2:16, “I hate divorce, says the Lord God.” Whatever grounds the Bible possibly gives for divorce, that does not mean God desires a divorce to occur in those instances. Rather than asking “is ______ a grounds for divorce,” often the question should be “is _______ grounds for forgiveness, restoration, and/or counseling?”

The Bible gives two clear grounds for divorce: (1) sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32; 19:9) and (2) abandonment by an unbeliever (1 Corinthians 7:15). Even in these two instances, though, divorce is not required or even encouraged. The most that can be said is that sexual immorality and abandonment are grounds (an allowance) for divorce. Confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration are always the first steps. Divorce should only be viewed as a last resort.

Are there any grounds for divorce beyond what the Bible explicitly says? Perhaps, but we do not presume upon the Word of God. It is very dangerous to go beyond what the Bible says (1 Corinthians 4:6). The most frequent additional grounds for divorce that people inquire about are spousal abuse (emotional or physical), child abuse, addiction to pornography, drug / alcohol use, crime / imprisonment, and mismanagement of finances (such as through a gambling addiction). None of these can be claimed to be explicit biblical grounds for a divorce.

That does not necessarily mean, though, that none of them are grounds for divorce which God would approve of. For example, we cannot imagine that it would be God’s desire for a wife to remain with a husband who physically abuses her and/or their children. In such an instance, the wife should definitely separate herself and the children from the abusive husband. However, even in such a situation, a time of separation with the goal of repentance and restoration should be the ideal, not necessarily immediately beginning divorce proceedings. Please understand, by saying that the above are not biblical grounds for divorce, we are definitely not saying that a man/woman whose spouse is engaging in such activities should remain in the situation. If there is any risk to self or children, separation is a good and appropriate step.

Another way to look at this issue is to differentiate between biblical grounds for divorce and biblical grounds for divorce and remarriage. Some interpret the two biblical grounds for divorce mentioned above as the only grounds for remarriage after a divorce, but allow for divorce with no remarriage in other instances. While this is a plausible interpretation, it seems to come too close to presuming upon the Word of God. For more information, please read the following two articles:
http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/divorced-remarry.html

In summary, what are the biblical grounds for divorce? The answer is sexual immorality and abandonment. Are there additional grounds for divorce beyond these two? Possibly. Is divorce ever to be treated lightly or employed as the first recourse? Absolutely not. God is capable of changing and reforming any person. God is capable of healing and renewing any marriage. Divorce should only occur in instances of repeated and unrepentant heinous sin.

http://www.gotquestions.org/grounds-for-divorce.html

Engaging in pornography meets that criteria.

[Guest shiloh357]

But all one has to do to be guilty of adultery in your heart is look upon a woman to lust.  Jesus didn't say you chose to seek her out to lust after her.  David didn't set out to commit adultery with Bathsheba.  He saw her and lust came into his heart.  Had he stopped there, he would have been much better off and less guilty than calling her over and sleeping with her.  Lust in itself is wrong, but I don't see it as the same as the actual sex act. 

Lusting after a woman amounts to entertaining sin in your heart.   I notice great looking women all of the time.  But I also look away and ask the Lord to guard my heart.   It's not a sin to notice an attractive member of the opposite sex.   God hard wired us to notice.   It would be weird if you didn't notice.    It's what comes after that.   You can't help the first look; you CAN help the second look. 

Even if you don't seek it out, sin will find you and temptation will ensue and just like David didn't seek out Bathsheba, but David could have looked away.  He could covered his eyes and went inside the second he saw her.   Regardless if you seek it out or not, it's what you do with sin that makes the difference.

Lust is a sexual act in the heart.  It is an imagining of what you want to do with that person and that is where sin begins.   Jesus did equate lust with the physical act of adultery when he said that if you lust after a woman who is not your wife, adultery has already occurred in your heart.  From God's perspective, that's just as bad as the physical act. 

I agree that it is sin in the sight of God.  I just disagree with those who claim it is grounds for divorce.  Even in states where you must show cause to get a divorce, you have to prove adultery actually took place.  Simply having desired to commit adultery isn't grounds in a court of law.  In the law of Moses, you didn't stone a person to death for desiring to commit adultery.  They had to commit the act, and there had to be witnesses.  I am not disagreeing with you about the sinfulness of pornography or lust. 

I never said it was grounds for divorce.  

I said we should be more concerned with the eternal state of the spouse rather than the legal crimes they commit.

 

That means loving our spouse as Christ loves us.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with that at all.  I just don't believe that viewing pornography is grounds for divorce.  I don't agree that it falls under the category of fornication, regardless of the similarity of the word porneio to pornography.  The word used to describe sorcery is also similar to the word we use for pharmacy, but I don't see all medicine as sorcery. 

The difference being that the word for pharmacy is not the same word we use for witchcraft or sorcery.     Porneo refers to sexual immorality.  Pornography is sexual immorality because it is used to gain sexual gratification outside of marriage.

Women who discover their husband's sexual escapades online are just as devastated in many cases, as if he had actually  committed adultery with another woman.  It communicates the same message to her, regardless.  It tells her she is not good enough and that he needs to have his sexual needs met elsewhere.

[missmuffet]

I have known couples who have dealt with infidelity and they forgive and they have a wonderful long marriage.Then there are those who are repeat offenders.

[ayin jade]

 

 

I HATE THIS FORUM SET UP NOW. I HATE REPEATEDLY TRIED TO POST ON THIS AND THE REPLY BUTTON KEEPS GIVING ME THIS STUPID MULTIPLE QUOTE. IT IS ANNOYING BEYOND REASON

 

SO HERE IS MY REPLY TO THERESELITTLEFLOWER WHO QUOTED:

I never said it was grounds for divorce.  

I said we should be more concerned with the eternal state of the spouse rather than the legal crimes they commit.

 

That means loving our spouse as Christ loves us.

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by thereselittleflower

 

And my reply is that my topic is on ground for divorce not the eternal state of anyone

Edited August 22, 2015 by ayin jade