The Battle of Gog and Magog

[SueZQ]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree since I find "Got Questions" a very reliable ministry.

Bopeep

This Got Questions mob has got you into a trance.

Ezra has shown you from God's very own word all the contradictions and you are blocking your ears to the Word of the Lord.  Please think on this that everything taught must harmonise with scripture.  There can be no contradictions.  If there are contradictions in doctrine and we are made aware and ignore, then we will be one of those who have no love for the truth.  This is serious sister, don't take it lightly.

 2 Timothy 3:16   All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

It's very dangerous not to read the bible for ourselves, because then we cannot compare truth with error.  You are trusting them with your whole heart and soul.

I do not say this to bring you down but to guide you and remind you that Jesus said we have to feed on his flesh only.  That means go directly to his Word and he will feed you.  It's ok for us to ask questions if we are stuck, but search the scriptures first, then weigh everything out.  Trust Christ that he can feed you, he promised us that he would.

John 6:27   Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

 I am so thankful for this post Sister!

"It's very dangerous not to read the bible for ourselves, because then we cannot compare truth with error.  You are trusting them with your whole heart and soul."

 

[Serving]

There are many people today who claim that there are TWO battles of Gog and Magog, but you will find in Revelation that there is just ONE such battle, which is AFTER the Millennium.  This battle should not be confused with the battle of Armageddon which is BEFORE the Millennium  (Rev 14:13-16; 19:11-21). Satan is the supreme leader of both these battles against Christ and against Israel. After the first battle, the Beast (the Antichrist) and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire.  After the second battle, Satan himself is cast into the Lake of Fire.

ONE BATTLE AFTER THE MILLENNIUM

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.  And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (Rev 20: 7-9)

NO EVIDENCE FOR TWO BATTLES

Those who claim that there are two battles of Gog and Magog have little or no genuine proof of such a claim.  According to gotquestions.org, “The strongest evidence for this view is that the attack will come when Israel is at peace (Ezekiel 38:8,11) [during the Tribulation]. The description from Ezekiel is that of a nation that has security and has laid down its defenses”. But when you carefully study Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39, the only reason that Israel is at peace and “has laid down its defenses” is because the Lord Jesus Christ is ruling over Israel and all the nations (Ezek 39:27-29). This would be impossible while the Antichrist controls Israel and the world.  Indeed the Antichrist merely has a false peace for Israel during the Tribulation, “and by peace shall destroy many” (Dan 8:25).  In any event, that is “the Time of Jacob’s Trouble” so there will be little or no peace for the Jews. Two battles of Gog and Magog are pure conjecture, and refuted by Rev 20.  If there were two such battles, surely the book of Revelation would present them.

THE PROPHECY OF EZEKIEL (CHAPTERS 38 & 39)

There are numerous Christians who have been indoctrinated into believing that the prophecy of Ezekiel should not be interpreted as a real, literal, progressive prophecy pertaining to Israel.  That there is no actual Millennium  in the future. But there is absolutely no valid reason for such a belief.  Ezekiel was shown a multitude of visions, including a vision of redeemed and restored Israel under the Lord Jesus Christ (chapters 33-48).  It is in this context that we see the battle of Gog and Magog, which corresponds to Rev 20:7-9.  Here is what we find in these two chapters:

1. Israel Regathered (38:8; 39:27)

2. Israel Redeemed and Restored (39:25-29)

3. Israel at Peace With no Defences (38:8,11)

4. Israel in Prosperity (38:12,13)

5. The Northern Confederacy Against Israel (38:1-9; 39:1-4)

6. God’s Promise to the Enemies of Israel (38:14-20; 39:1-7)

7. The Destruction of the Armies of Gog and Magog (38:21-23; 39:6,7,21-24)

8. Seven Months of Burying, Seven Years of Burning (39:9-20)

Spot on Ezra,

Well done brother.

Regards.

[Steve_S]

The main problem that I have (not the only) with placing Gog/Magog at the end of the millennium is found lovingly ensconced in the pasted arms of point number 3 that bopeep/random poster from gotquestions makes. In your response to this you claim that people have "no right to demand redundancy from scripture." I agree wholeheartedly with this contention! However, a lack of redundancy is not, at all, the problem here sir. This is the problem:

Rev 20:10-12  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.  (11)  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.  (12)  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

 

Now, what precisely happens immediately after the battle of 20:8-9? Satan is cast into the lake of fire and then the great white throne judgment. From revelation 20:13-15 anyone not found in the Lamb's book of life is thrown into the lake of fire as well. Immediately following this event, we have this:

Rev 21:1-2  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.  (2)  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

So what you have so far - Satan into the lake of fire, great white throne judgement, everybody not found written into the Lamb's book of life thrown into the lake of fire and then - New heaven and a new earth.

Eze 39:9-12  "Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years.  (10)  They will not take wood from the field nor cut down any from the forests, because they will make fires with the weapons; and they will plunder those who plundered them, and pillage those who pillaged them," says the Lord GOD.  (11)  "It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude. Therefore they will call it the Valley of Hamon Gog.  (12)  For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land.

Why is israel burning weapons for seven years and burying corpses for seven months if there is a new heaven and a new earth - because the "first heaven and first earth had passed away?" This is a legitimate concern vis-a-vis placing gog/magog after the millennium. I have never been able to reconcile these two things together, but I admit that doesn't mean they do not happen that way, only that it seems they do not.

[missmuffet]

Does this answer your question?

 

God promises to destroy Gog’s army: “I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him” (Ezekiel 38:22). The bodies of the fallen army of Magog will be buried, but it will take over seven months to complete the macabre task (Ezekiel 39:12, 14). This supernatural judgment will have the effect of preserving Israel and turning many hearts to God: “And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord” (Ezekiel 38:23). Many will be saved during the tribulation (Revelation 7), and the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38—39 will be one means by which God will bring people to a knowledge of Himself.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Russia-end-times.html

Edited August 29, 2015 by bopeep1909

[Ezra]

As I mentioned earlier, Revelation 20 is a rapid overview of events from the Millennium onwards. Indeed the Millennium is briefly mentioned in a couple of verses.  We don't even know how much time elapses between any of those events. The confirmation that the same battle of Gog and Magog is in view comes from Rev 20:9 which corresponds to Ezek 38:22, which speaks of a supernatural fire from "out of heaven":

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Ezekiel if full of details, whereas Rev 20 is a very succinct summary. Therefore the sequence of events described in Rev 20 is not a barrier to understanding the details of the Millennium followed by the battle of Gog and Magog (which is also described in a couple of verses). 

[Steve_S]

As I mentioned earlier, Revelation 20 is a rapid overview of events from the Millennium onwards. Indeed the Millennium is briefly mentioned in a couple of verses.  We don't even know how much time elapses between any of those events. The confirmation that the same battle of Gog and Magog is in view comes from Rev 20:9 which corresponds to Ezek 38:22, which speaks of a supernatural fire from "out of heaven":

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

 

Ezekiel if full of details, whereas Rev 20 is a very succinct summary. Therefore the sequence of events described in Rev 20 is not a barrier to understanding the details of the Millennium followed by the battle of Gog and Magog (which is also described in a couple of verses). 

Again, Ezra, you fail to address all these years of burying and burning even though there is going to be a new heaven and earth (Rev. 21:1-2). You say we don't know the exact timeline? We don't, but it certainly seems that the judgement happens right after the defeat. This is given in language which denotes an immediate sequence. Man added the verse and chapter numbers. In the original text revelation 21 is an immediate continuation of Revelation 20, and in that you get the judgment and a new heavens and earth appearing. In your version God tarries about 7 years while men burn chariots and spears before creating this. Are you insinuating that there is a definitive gap in Revelation 20:15 and Revelation 21:1?

The simple fact that fire comes down and destroys the armies is confirmation of *nothing* other than that fire comes down and destroys the armies. You can make an argument that it is possible, but you cannot say with any certainty that this is referring to the same event, as there are things peripherally contextually in each of these chapters (Ezekiel 38 and 39 and Revelation 20 and 21) that makes it seem as if these are not the same events. It could very well be that the Gog/Magog referred to in Revelation is the successor to the one that is initially destroyed. We do not have definitive information here. Teaching it as unadulterated fact is dangerous due to this.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Steve_S

[Kan]

Some of, if not many of, the old events which occurred according to the word of the Lord through the prophets, are used as symbols for real events later on.

We can clearly see that by the language borrowed in Revelation, and Daniel, but those old prophecies such as in Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc, are not always applied directly to the times concerned in these two books, even though the language and names are repeated and similar.

Because many people have uprooted these two books and placed most of their content into the future, they have also taken other prophetic books and placed those events into the future, adding confusion.

This type of application is not entirely wrong, because the prophecies of old had fulfillment in their times and were applicable then, and they are shadows of the culminating events of earth's history. It was to show that the attitude and promises of God are the same, whether then or now, and so whatever was promised by God will come true, not just on a local scale as back then, but a global scale.

Books like Revelation have already converted those ancient symbols and aligned them with real events that transpire from the past into the future.

When God gave a prophet a vision of issues in their day, He would often allow them to see the future as well, for the sake of those who would live in the last days.

Jesus actually did this verbally in Matthew 24, when the disciples ask about the future, He used the coming destruction of Jerusalem as a symbol for the destruction of the world, but it does not mean there will be a second temple destroyed etc etc.

[Serving]

 

A major difference between Gog & Magog and Jacobs trouble is this : The false prophet actually gets into Jerusalem and occupies her for 3 1/2 years whereas Gog & Magog never even enters Jerusalem at all, but only achieves to surround Jerusalem before being destroyed by God.

So the first, Israel is punished by God during Jacobs trouble right before Armageddon because she is corrupted .. and the second phase (Gog & Magog) God protects Israel .. for at this stage, being the millennium period, she, Israel is Holy.

Regards.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Serving

[Kan]

Gog and Magog were ancient descendants of Noah which occupied and worked on the sea and land respectively. Those names can also mean the ends of the earth - Gog - south and west, Magog north and east.

One established the trade routes by sea, connecting the new civilizations, and the other developed land use and associated trade routes. Basically the world after the flood was established by these two lines of descendants. 

They also represented the Isles of the gentiles or the gentile world, which was represented by ancient Greece.

These symbolize those who had no time for the Gospel, as they said to Paul in Athens.

So if these names are given in the picture of the end of the thousand years, then they represent all that have been raised on the earth for the judgment. As Revelation 20:13 says "the sea gave up the dead* which were in it, and (the land) death and hell delivered up the dead* which were in them." So basically all who died, on sea, land or in fire, by disease, old age, accidents and war. There is no need to conjecture, whether there are souls in fire or souls in sea water before that time, because there is no such thing as anything living while it is dead. The point made is simply "no one escapes this resurrection and judgement," except of course those who came up in the first one, this is the second resurrection.

* "the dead" means dead, not living - in any way.

They prepare to make war on the New Jerusalem, but are judged and fail.

[Ezra]

 

The simple fact that fire comes down and destroys the armies is confirmation of *nothing* other than that fire comes down and destroys the armies. You can make an argument that it is possible, but you cannot say with any certainty that this is referring to the same event,...

Steve, here's the scriptural reason why we can say that they are the same event (Ezek 39:6; Rev 20:8,9), and that Rev 20:8,9 is A FULFILMENT of Ezekiel's prophecy.  Why should that be considered "dangerous" since it is establishing that God knows the end from the beginning? This is further proof that the entire Bible is Divine revelation.

And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle... and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.