Submission

[Guest Butero]

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:  for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief:  for that is unprofitable for you.  Hebrews 13:17

That would include, but is not limited to, the husband's authority in the home. 

[Guest Butero]

Submit means to yield to the husband's governance or authority according to meriam Webster.  (I do see it as the result of Eve messing up, it was the result/ a curse/ punishment because of Eve lead Adam astray or tempted Adam after she was tempted /was deceived by Satan and God put His foot down. ) Adam received his punishment for disobeying God too and both of them together. That is what the Bible says, right? Submission is an attitude of the wife who willingly Yields -defers  to the authority her husband.  As I understand it, God does like someone to be in charge and HE made that the Husband.  The headship of the couple is the man, the headship of the man is CHRIST. I have known more women that have a problem with being bossy and domineering than men which to me more speaks to there are natural tendencies towards imbalances and sin in both genders. Some men are slack, lazy, too passive and poor leaders. We just have to deal with our human failings and try to Obey GOD as it is written in the BIble as best we can.   Bo & Butero , you guys are cute having this disagreement-- it made me laugh!  It's a touchy subject.   Don't hit me ok? .....I'm wearing glasses. Lol!

 

Full Definition of SUBMIT

transitive verb

1

a :  to yield to governance or authority

 

b :  to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation <the metal was submitted to analysis>

2

:  to present or propose to another for review, consideration, or decision; also :  to deliver formally <submitted my resignation>

3

:  to put forward as an opinion or contention <we submit that the charge is not proved>

intransitive verb

1

a :  to yield oneself to the authority or will of another :  surrender

 

b :  to permit oneself to be subjected to something <had to submit to surgery>

2

:  to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another

No worries.  I don't go around hitting women.  Look at the kind of things people are saying to me.  I have BoPeep saying she is glad she isn't married to me, as if that is a Biblically based reason to oppose me.  ATGNAT doesn't want to be me, as though that is a Biblical reason to oppose me.  I don't want to be married to BoPeep and I don't want to be ATGNAT.  So what?  What does any of that have to do with this topic?  We either believe what the Bible says or we don't.  Anyway, thanks for your post.  It is nice to see someone actually making points based on scripture.  The only minor difference in how I view it is that I believe the husband was always the head of the wife, but the strife came as a result of the fall, but in a practical sense, that doesn't really matter. 

[Kan]

Would you die for your wife, obedient ( to you ) or not ? 

While writing my post, this has just answered the definitions of both.

Authority in this case is the one who is willing to submit their own life for the other - pure love, can be the only authority and the only submission in God's kingdom.

Any other definition ends up in Satan's realm.

Submission means obedience to the one who is over you in authority.  A man loving his wife as Christ loved the church would mean he would defend his wife to the death if need be.  I would imagine any good man would defend his family from harm with everything that is within him.  What is your point? 

Just that as you have said.

Submission is simply courteousness. God is courteous. As Jesus said, learn of me for I am meek and lowly of heart. That is the Authority of God - His meekness. So if anyone trespasses or despises that, such as Satan did, only because he could, it is an act against the source of Life and therefor by its very nature a death sentence.

In heaven there are no authorities, because people are courteous and meek like their Lord. 

Submission is not resigning or passivity or powerlessness, as it is in the kingdom of Satan, but an active labor of love. It is placing oneself in a position and mindset to support another. But it never means passivity, because it is an active choice in order to be of the greatest help.

Submission in Satan's world is to give up your safety, your choices, your freedom.

Heavenly submission has nothing to do with the above. It is about equality in service.

 

[Kan]

Wives don't need their husbands to lay down their lives, they need help around the house and then to spend time with them relaxing.

[Guest Butero]

Would you die for your wife, obedient ( to you ) or not ? 

While writing my post, this has just answered the definitions of both.

Authority in this case is the one who is willing to submit their own life for the other - pure love, can be the only authority and the only submission in God's kingdom.

Any other definition ends up in Satan's realm.

Submission means obedience to the one who is over you in authority.  A man loving his wife as Christ loved the church would mean he would defend his wife to the death if need be.  I would imagine any good man would defend his family from harm with everything that is within him.  What is your point? 

Just that as you have said.

Submission is simply courteousness. God is courteous. As Jesus said, learn of me for I am meek and lowly of heart. That is the Authority of God - His meekness. So if anyone trespasses or despises that, such as Satan did, only because he could, it is an act against the source of Life and therefor by its very nature a death sentence.

In heaven there are no authorities, because people are courteous and meek like their Lord. 

Submission is not resigning or passivity or powerlessness, as it is in the kingdom of Satan, but an active labor of love. It is placing oneself in a position and mindset to support another. But it never means passivity, because it is an active choice in order to be of the greatest help.

Submission in Satan's world is to give up your safety, your choices, your freedom.

Heavenly submission has nothing to do with the above. It is about equality in service.

 

The word courteous and submission are not synonyms.  They are two entirely different things.  I can be very courteous as I refuse to obey those in authority.  I can politely tell the IRS that I refuse to pay my taxes, and say it in the nicest way, but I am still refusing to submit to the lawmakers that said I must pay my taxes.  There definitely are authorities in heaven.  If there were no authorities in heaven, Lucifer couldn't have rebelled.  He was under God, but refused to submit, along with 1/3 of the angels.  Satan doesn't teach submission.  He teaches rebellion.  He was the first rebel, and he teaches men and women to follow his lead, and sadly, many in the church have fallen prey to his teachings without realizing it.  I place myself in that number, because the scope of this rebellion was only recently revealed to me.  Once we have the knowledge, we must make a decision as to who we will follow:  God or the devil. 

[Guest Butero]

Wives don't need their husbands to lay down their lives, they need help around the house and then to spend time with them relaxing.

The Bible states wives are to submit themselves unto their husbands as unto the Lord.  Jesus never gave up his Lordship, and his example was laying down his life for mankind.  Husbands have jobs to do too.  They get up in the morning and work a job to earn a living by the sweat of their brow as God commanded.  The wives are not expected Biblically to go to work with them and help them so they can relax sooner.  I realize that in modern day America, many wives do work, so in such cases, you make a valid point, but I am speaking of a situation where the man and woman are fulfilling their role as he designed. 

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

No, you don't want to be me Butero, amen. I'm not sure what I've said to upset you, but it wasn't my intention. No, your wife doesn't want you to lay down your life for her. Yes, the IRS would not appreciate that sentiment. Your work-place is not your first stewardship. 

I am just saying brother, that your wife is a precious gift from God. Feel free to "rule over her" into "submission" with scripture. I choose to honor mine own as as something as precious as my own salvation ( which are both by grace and mercy ) . God bless brother. 

[Guest Butero]

No, you don't want to be me Butero, amen. I'm not sure what I've said to upset you, but it wasn't my intention. No, your wife doesn't want you to lay down your life for her. Yes, the IRS would not appreciate that sentiment. Your work-place is not your first stewardship. 

I am just saying brother, that your wife is a precious gift from God. Feel free to "rule over her" into "submission" with scripture. I choose to honor mine own as as something as precious as my own salvation ( which are both by grace and mercy ) . God bless brother. 

You are missing the point.  The point is that the Bible says the husband is to rule over his wife.  The Bible says that wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord.  What you and some others are doing is acting as though I am making this up on my own, and I am not.  I didn't choose to establish the order.  God did.  I just believe what the Bible says.  Of course I can choose to ignore the Bible and act as though God never said any of those things.  If the Bible had said the husband and wife are equal partners and equal in authority, I would just as easily have accepted that, but that is clearly not what it says.  Let me ask you this.  You have read the scriptures I posted.  If you go to the thread in Q & A on the same topic, you will see many more scriptures and how I tied them all together.  Can you honestly say I am misinterpreting them, and if so, how?  If I am not misinterpreting them, that means that those who oppose me are opposing God. 

[Guest Butero]

A wife is not a husband's "property". Focus on your role as a husband. 

But she is under his authority.  To deny that is to do the work of Satan and continue to promote his agenda of rebellion.  We need to focus on the whole counsel of the Word of God, and that includes what the Bible teaches about wives obeying their husbands. 

@ BoPeep.  By refusing to do something he tells her to do. 

 

A wife is not a husband's "property". Focus on your role as a husband. 

 

Are you a "Godly man" Butero ? 

Who can really make such a boast ATGNAT?

Not me brother. Still, I would give my life for my wife, that God gave me, right now if need be. JESUS gave Himself for us when we were yet sinners. without pause. As I was given that same charge for my family, I would do the same. What I expect and require seems to differ from your expectations brother ( though I receive them lovingly ). I suppose I am in sin for placing so much adoration on my wife of 37 years, who has not only stood beside me, but helped to guide me. You may " rule " over your " obedient " wife ( while you remain disobedient to God ), but I am not you, nor would want to be . I love you brother, but God loved you more and before .

Since you asked what I found offensive in your comment, it was your next to last sentence.  I found it to be judgmental, as you don't know me and are openly accusing me of being disobedient to God, before saying you wouldn't want to be me.  I never said I was disobedient to God.  I wouldn't expect you would want to be me, anymore than I want to be you, but the implication is that I am a disobedient and abusive person and you don't want to be that way.  I am not really offended as much as I see it as a straw man's argument.  I was pointing that out.  BoPeep did the same thing in saying she is glad she is not married to me, and I am wondering why she thinks I would care since I have no interest in being married to her.  Can we just discuss the right and wrong of a topic based on scripture instead of personal feelings, personal attacks and using how we do things in our own marriages as an argument?  There are people that might believe that they need to keep their wives in line by caning them, and that is how they do things.  They may say that is a sign of love, but that is hardly Biblical.  Still, it may be how someone else shows love in their relationship.  I don't care about that.  I just want the correct Bible interpretation, period. 

[gdemoss]

I thank God for being the ultimate Lord of all and his appointment of Jesus Christ as LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS for Lordship is ownership of all that is possessed of said Lord in both heaven and earth to with what he wills whenever he wills.

That must be understood first in order to put all authority and ownership of all property in perspective.

The ultimate Lord over all decides who will be whose Lord and who will own what.

I claim the authority to rule my house as the one responsible for being husband  (house + band) over wife and children where such rulership is to be modeled after the lordship of Jesus Christ who sets the standard by that which he has done such as washing the feet of those who were his.

God set the standard for all lordship in Jesus Christ.  

That said, how to deal with those who do not respect Gods standard is a separate issue.  I believe that needs a new thread.  I will start one later. Peace!