Do we really understand the person of the Holy Spirit?

[*Zion*]

Cool, thanks dear bro 

[*Zion*]

No, Jeff, I think it's the way Enoob described it.  I have copied and pasted as he suggested and it seems good now.

Also, I believe God the Holy Spirit reveals God the Father's Word to us:

 

Ephesians3:4-6New King James Version (NKJV)

4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

 

So as we can see, the Trinity is at work in bringing us to the knowledge of the one true God.  Be careful that we do not sin against the Holy Spirit by blaspheming Him, and claiming untruths about Him as though they were true.  We are here to learn and understand, not to prove ourselves right:

 

Mark 3:29

but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—

 

Luke 12:10

“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against theHoly Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet another thing we can discuss is whether the Holy Spirit reveals to some special, secret knowledge so that they 'know' something everyone else doesn't.  I have found that some do believe this is the case with them.  That would be a very interesting discussion

Edited October 19, 2015 by *Zion*

[*Zion*]

God gives us a meter to use:
Gal 5:16-24
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and
these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh
are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you
before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not
inherit the kingdom of God.22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
KJV
Produce of one's life on a moment by moment  walk tells us what we should or should
not be allowing in our life... it is about self elimination and living within the heart of God's
pleasure because it is the eternal pleasure of keeping.  Love, Steven
 

Amen! 

[Your closest friendnt]

Obviously, understanding God in His entirety is far beyond our capabilities, but that's a big part of why Jesus came to earth, to show us Himself: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Now Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, and has sent us the Holy Spirit.  He who lives in us as His vessels - that's if we're born again of water and of the Holy Spirit.  But do we understand Him enough to live the way we are supposed to in obedience to Him?  I'm afraid the answer may be a resounding NO.  But I want to learn!  Thought and encouragements, please.  

I am not quite sure what you are asking. You have enough knowledge, but I think that you feel comfortable to go along with the understanding of the ones you respect. In the example of Peter when he was sent to Kornilius family, If you examine very carefully what happen, you may see that Jesus in a very peculiar way change Peter's understanding.

before this even the disciples had all a common understanding in two matters.

a) someone who is a believer in Jesus Christ, and is not  considared to be clean withing the Jewish cleansing traditions, looses his fellowship with Jesus and or the Holy Spirit, till the time he can be declared clean again.  To become clean again according to Jewish seremonial cleansing law, the use of water was required as to wash one's self and to wash one's cloths.    b) the Gentiles were considered unclean and that makes them ineligeble for been part of the faith,  or Jesus accepting to have fellowship with them, meaning Jesus does not and will not accept their faith even if they believed. They can not be part of the family of God. 

Going back to (a), Jesus asking Peter to go to a Gentile house (unclean place), trouble Peter too much, he show himself loosing the fellowship with Jesus and or the Holy Spirit, and also the fellowship of the other believers and his fellow disciples.   And he was wondering why, God does not accept the faith of the Gentiles any way. 

In this event Jesus dealed with both matters, he show Peter there is nothing unclean to him anymore.

( to people in their culture still is, but not to God)

Those cleansing laws made the person clean again . So the term "born of the water". And again the person can enter into fellowship in their comunity and the things of the law and participating  in their celabrations, (through the washing of the water) (born of the water).

I mention that to you for more than one reason, in you O.P. You made a statement referring to Jesus saing to Nicodimus "some one must be born of the water and the spirit, to see or enter the Kingdom of God".

Jesus was talking to someone who was clean according with the Jewish seremonial cleansing ( through water), and believing that he will see the kingdom of God. Jesus was telling him, you must wait to be born of the spirit from above then you will see or enter the Kingdom of God, and Jesus explain to him that will happen when you see me lifted up on the Cross, they way Mosses lifted up the Serpent in the dessert. Simply put, Jesus said that I must died first for that to happen.(been born from the spirit from above). From The heavens.

Take your time to examine, Nicodimus what been "born of water" meant to Nicodimus who was a Jew, and a pharice. 

a) it can not be been born from a woman, cause every one is born this way, even Gentiles which are not clean, and even Jews who still need the cleansing sheremonies.

b) it can not refered to been baptize with water in the name of Jesus, and or in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit, because the time had not come yet, the greate commission has not yet been given, and Nicodimus had to believed after the resuraction that Jesus was the Christ first, to be first born from above, and then partake of the water baptism. as a child of the heavens participating in the ritual of water baptism. 

I respond to the statement in your O.P.

"that if we are born again of the water and of the spirit".

 

[Willa]

Jesus said He came to reveal and glorify the Father.  The Spirit came to reveal and glorify Jesus.  They are one God.  To know Jesus is to know the Father and to know the Spirit is to know Jesus.  Each reflects the character of the other.  They are different in form but united in character.  To be born of the Spirit is having the Spirit of Jesus and of Father God living in us.  So when we are unable to love and forgive in our flesh, the Spirit causes us to recall the words of Jesus on the cross praying" Father, forgive them, they know not what they do."   Christ lives within us!  He forgives those people.  How can we not forgive.  Likewise we serve a Father who spared not His only Son but sent Him while we were yet sinners to die for us.  He demonstrated His love in that way.  We can hardly comprehend such love.  But God came for and died for the unlovable.  That's US.   And we are also to demonstrate His love to the unlovable, having Compassion for those who don't know any better because they are lost and unredeemed.    As God said of wicked Ninavah, they don't know their left hand from their left.   (I always identify with this since I am dyslexic.   lol)

[FreeinChrist]

Well, personally considering the consequences of saying something that might be wrong and the non forgiving attitude for doing that,   I'm kind of leery of discussing the Holy Spirit in any real detail.

Well, personally considering the consequences of saying something that might be wrong and the non forgiving attitude for doing that,   I'm kind of leery of discussing the Holy Spirit in any real detail.

 

It turns out much better and more PEACEFUL and ACCURATE to do as Yeshua said, seek the Father Abba, frequently, asking whatever you desire in Yeshua's Name, and trusting and relying on Yahweh for all things.   Yahweh will do for you as He said, as it is written.

The emphasis many types of churches put on seeking/praying to/ etc/ the holy spirit distracts from a lot of what is written in Scripture.  Note particularly ALL of the greetings Yahweh breathed to be written in ALL of the epistles/letters in the NT.

Thank you for all your responses, and may I stress the intention of the OP: to reason and to discuss together; i.e. in love!

With that in mind, I'd really love to hear what OtherOne has to contribute, and if any of us should be unforgiving, I shall be the first to blow raspberries at them!   Seriously brother, don't hold back, let us edify each other.

Also, I'd like to add that we should not be ignoring the Holy Spirit and just concentrating on the Father and the Son.  There is a reason He is part of the Trinity - He is God, and He has chosen our spirits to be His dwelling place.  I do not take it lightly.  So, SimpleJeff, are you talking about the Holy Spirit when you mention the Name Yahweh?  Please clarify.

Can we please agree that we are here to add to our understanding, and not to be argumentative and act superior?  It really doesn't help.

One thing that we can really address here, which quite frankly may help us all at this point, is our flesh.  How much we might rely on it, and how much we follow the Holy Spirit's leading.  I'd also like to explore whether we should abandon our logic when fully placing our trust in the Holy Spirit's leading, or whether He in fact uses our logic to communicate things, but perhaps in a way we are not used to.  I ask this because:

 

1Corinthians  1:8

 

 

 

 

[ Christ the Power and Wisdom of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1Corinthians 1:25

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

 

 

Looking forward to your answers, love you all

 

I am also interested in O.O. 's thoughts. 

For me, though I cannot touch Him, or see Him, I can perceive Him as He lives IN me. It is God. Can I prove that to an unbeliever? No. Can I show the results of it ? Yes, amen. I do not always heed Him ( much to my own dismay ), but I do try to.

 

 

I will third that OO, we have at least three people who are very interested in what you have to said.   I think with Zion leading, no one is gonna get out of line; and if they do if Zion doesn't get them pretty sure Esther will.   Remember the Moravian motto which is very Biblical: In essential unity, and nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity.   Please share your thoughts and wisdom with us.

[*Zion*]

I am also interested in O.O. 's thoughts. 

For me, though I cannot touch Him, or see Him, I can perceive Him as He lives IN me. It is God. Can I prove that to an unbeliever? No. Can I show the results of it ? Yes, amen. I do not always heed Him ( much to my own dismay ), but I do try to.

 

 

I will third that OO, we have at least three people who are very interested in what you have to said.   I think with Zion leading, no one is gonna get out of line; and if they do if Zion doesn't get them pretty sure Esther will.   Remember the Moravian motto which is very Biblical: In essential unity, and nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity.   Please share your thoughts and wisdom with us.

[other one]

I am also interested in O.O. 's thoughts. 

For me, though I cannot touch Him, or see Him, I can perceive Him as He lives IN me. It is God. Can I prove that to an unbeliever? No. Can I show the results of it ? Yes, amen. I do not always heed Him ( much to my own dismay ), but I do try to.

 

 

I will third that OO, we have at least three people who are very interested in what you have to said.   I think with Zion leading, no one is gonna get out of line; and if they do if Zion doesn't get them pretty sure Esther will.   Remember the Moravian motto which is very Biblical: In essential unity, and nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity.   Please share your thoughts and wisdom with us.

 

Matt 12:31-33
31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come.
NASB

 

This warning is one of the reasons I am very careful of speaking of the Holy Spirit personally....    there is a whole lot more that I don't know about the Holy Spirit than I know, and to speak as I know things in my opinion makes me very nervous....

Matthew chapter ten verse 20 tells me that during the end times when we will be persecuted and taken captive, we are not to decide what to say but just wait and we will be given what to say....   and it will be the Spirit of the (our) Father that speaks in us.    Tends to make me think that the Holy Spirit is actually the Spirit of the Father.

But then again Jesus tells us that if he doesn't go away that the Father will not send our helper (Holy Spirit)    and explains that the Spirit will not say things of himself, but what he is told or hears I can't remember which.  Doesn't sound like it's actually the Spirit of the Father or it would know.

So since I personally don't think there are direct conflicts in the Bible I am convinced that I just don't understand.....   so I shouldn't be discussing it in any way that sounds like I know what I am talking about.   While I interface with something that I am pretty sure is the Holy Spirit, I know in my heart I do not understand exactly what He is.....  

but then again I read where Jesus tells us that all the things he did on earth was not of him, but the Father in Heaven who dwells in him...

So the Spirit doesn't tell us things of himself, Jesus didn't do things of himself, so I sort of see things as both the Holy Spirit and Jesus are the two entities that the Father has to interface with us...    Us being those who believe and ask to have him as part of our lives.

I have had long discussions with myself concerning these things and so far we have not come to a conclusion that would allow me to tell you exactly what the spirit is or it's full relationship with the three.

Are they equal.....   no way....     you can't be forgiven things you say against the Holy Spirit as you  can Jesus,  Jesus tells us that after his resurrection he had been given authority over everything except the Father....    meaning before that time he didn't?      And later it tells me that when he has made the enemy his footstool he himself will be subject to the Father as it should be so the Father can be in us all (or something of that nature).

So all I can really tell you about the Holy Spirit and know it's a fact is that He is wonderful....    and that I know from personal experience.

Edited October 3, 2015 by other one

[*Zion*]

Thank you brother.  There are some things that you have pointed out that I haven't considered in the way you present them.  Some things for me to think about.  Indeed, we have all of eternity to search Him out and learn of Him.  

(Ready and standing by with my raspberry blower...)

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Amen O.O!