Ephesians 3:8

[gdemoss]

'So that the manifold wisdom of God might be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.'

So the church knew about Christ and His coming to earth, and Holy Spirit power it gave us before any other created beings? Is that what is said here?  Is he talking about good beings or fallen beings? 

Hi Pam, I believe the fallen angels thought they had it all figured out.  That God was screwed and out of options.  That they had him beat.  Through change they sought to chain Jah but failed because God is not limited in wisdom but his wisdom is manifold  (see many + fold) unlimited in nature or having many outlets.  He keeps his cards close and only plays them in at the proper time.  Jesus was his ace in the hole whom he obtained victory being able to give him all power in both heaven and earth.  And now through our faith in him we, the church, have obtained freedom from bondage that the wandering stars had hoped to bind us with and we are connected to the highest authority it all of creation, the Son of the Living God in whom God will give us all things.  The fallen angels reign is over. All praise honor and glory be to God the Father!

[WilliamL]

'So that the manifold wisdom of God might be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.'

So the church knew about Christ and His coming to earth, and Holy Spirit power it gave us before any other created beings? Is that what is said here?  Is he talking about good beings or fallen beings?

...I don't think the verse is saying that other created beings didn't know about these things, but that they are in heavenly places witnessing the fulfillment of these things as they are taking place, which still seems mysterious to me.  However, in 1 Peter 1:10-12

"As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.  It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look."

This passage seems to indicate that angels are just fascinated with all this work being done through Christ in our fallen world.  

An old Hebraic tradition is that when God created Adam as the last/ultimate of his works, he told the angels (who were created earlier) to bow down before him, because Man was to become their ruler. Most of the angels complied; the first being Michael, who was made chief of the heavenly host.

Satan and other angels, looking  upon this weakling creature of little glory made out of dust/mud, refused to bow, and determined to prove God wrong. Which is why Satan hates mankind, and has done and continues to do everything in his power to corrupt and destroy mankind, and God's plan for mankind.

[Your closest friendnt]

'So that the manifold wisdom of God might be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.'

So the church knew about Christ and His coming to earth, and Holy Spirit power it gave us before any other created beings? Is that what is said here?  Is he talking about good beings or fallen beings?

...I don't think the verse is saying that other created beings didn't know about these things, but that they are in heavenly places witnessing the fulfillment of these things as they are taking place, which still seems mysterious to me.  However, in 1 Peter 1:10-12

"As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.  It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look."

This passage seems to indicate that angels are just fascinated with all this work being done through Christ in our fallen world.  

An old Hebraic tradition is that when God created Adam as the last/ultimate of his works, he told the angels (who were created earlier) to bow down before him, because Man was to become their ruler. Most of the angels complied; the first being Michael, who was made chief of the heavenly host.

Satan and other angels, looking  upon this weakling creature of little glory made out of dust/mud, refused to bow, and determined to prove God wrong. Which is why Satan hates mankind, and has done and continues to do everything in his power to corrupt and destroy mankind, and God's plan for mankind.

Are you making a motion to add this books to the bible?

or are you suggesting that the Jews were there at the time of creation wittnessing everything in heavens and earth, and this story is their wittness account?

or are all the Jews united behind this account of evens?

or some they have another account?

if we want to know something that is not in the bible, sould we ask the Jews?

[WilliamL]

Some Hebraic tradition and history is bogus, some is not. Up to you, and your relationship to the Spirit, to evaluate and decide for yourself.

The Bible is not the complete repository of all history, obviously. For just one example, practically everything we know about Herod the Great is from non-biblical history; likewise for the Roman, Babylonian, and Assyrian histories.

The Jews did not have only a written tradition, they also had an oral one, exclusively passed down among the wisest of their elders. Remember, they were personally descended from Abraham himself, who was by all ancient accounts a master of ancient wisdom. Make light of these things if you want, and remain a babe in things of the Scriptures. Your choice.

[Your closest friendnt]

Some Hebraic tradition and history is bogus, some is not. Up to you, and your relationship to the Spirit, to evaluate and decide for yourself.

The Bible is not the complete repository of all history, obviously. For just one example, practically everything we know about Herod the Great is from non-biblical history; likewise for the Roman, Babylonian, and Assyrian histories.

The Jews did not have only a written tradition, they also had an oral one, exclusively passed down among the wisest of their elders. Remember, they were personally descended from Abraham himself, who was by all ancient accounts a master of ancient wisdom. Make light of these things if you want, and remain a babe in things of the Scriptures. Your choice.

Most of the Jews they are atheist today.

they openly conffes to that, they don't hide it.

they practice their coulture without faith, not only that, but they openly extent invitations to participate with them without believing.

are you suggesting that you got hold of the books of wisdom that Abraham wrote?

Do you know what Jesus said?

What did he mean, when he said that to the Jews; " if you don't believe in me, you are not Abraham,s children.

Did he severed their Blood line?

Was he informing them that they are not going to be in the same place as Abraham?

Did he call them iligitimate children?

the istorical events you mention, have nothing to do with been there wittnessing the creation.

Every nation have it's own history books, written not without bias.

Where in my post have I written that the history of all other nations is in the Bible? 

When you say the Spirit , what spirit ? the one working in Paul?  Paul never taught from all wise tails. 

Do you know something more than the Holy Spirit?

Jesus Christ is love, he turns the other cheek, we have a lot to learn from him, step by step.

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by Your closest friendnt
Added last sentence

[WilliamL]

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has [wisdom and understanding], to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

 

Here we see that mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, which include the creation account, are only given to a chosen few: those who are searching, open-minded, open-hearted, and ready to receive.

The same has been true throughout the history of man, ever since Adam. Therefore, there is no reason to assume that the Hebraic oral traditions are all a bunch of fables. There is reason to assume that they were only passed down among the wise, and not shown to 'those who cannot hear nor understand'; those which were (and continue to be) the greater part of the Jewish people, as well as the greater part of the ones who claim to belong to Christ's Church.

 

As far as the 'nobody was there to witness the creation' argument --

... are you suggesting that the Jews were there at the time of creation wittnessing everything in heavens and earth, and this story is their wittness account?

 

-- the same holds true for Moses, who wrote the Book of Genesis. Obviously, his accounts of the Creation in Genesis 1-2 were revealed mysteries given to him from above. It would be absurd in the extreme to presume that he was the only one to whom God revealed hidden mysteries. If God revealed mysteries to Moses, why not to Abraham? to Enoch? to others who found favor in God's sight?

[HAZARD]

 Ephesians 3:8, Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

In these Scriptures, Ephesians 3:8, and also in Romans 11:33, "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out,"

this refers to the footsteps of God in the unfolding of His plan for man of the riches of His grace in all ages to come (2:7; 3:8-9).

[Leonardo Von]

On 10/19/2015 at 11:39 AM, Pamelasv said:

'So that the manifold wisdom of God might be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.'

So the church knew about Christ and His coming to earth, and Holy Spirit power it gave us before any other created beings? Is that what is said here?  Is he talking about good beings or fallen beings? 

 

Dear sister Pamelasv,

Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

·         “Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: in whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.” (Ephesians 3.8-12).

 

On 10/19/2015 at 0:05 PM, *Zion* said:

That is how I see it, would love to discuss further.  God bless you

I am glad, sister Zion, you have pleasure in being talking more on this issue. This excerpt deal with the mystery of the Eternal, which was hidden with the Eternal until to death of Christ. Comes the question: What is this mystery about?

 

·        “Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: t whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:” (Colossians 1.26,27).

 

It is the Church. Until the advent of Christ, the Eternal if related Himself externally with each human being that allowed. When Jesus came, He related externally with every human being face-to-face. Now, through the holy spirit, the Eternal propose Himself the relate internally with each one who believes in Jesus, bringing within him the members of His Church that are around, so that He can keep a continuous communion with them twenty-four hours without any interruption (this is what means John 14.21,23). Hence to be said:

 

·        “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.” (1Pedro 2.5-8).

·        “Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” (2Corinthians 3.1-3).

 

That is to say, the great differential between us and those who believed in the Eternal before death and resurrection of Jesus is that they didn’t have the Holy Spirit (John 7.37-39), that is, they didn’t have the Eternal’ Spirit dwelling within each one and bringing those who believe in Him to live inside them, in order to they to be a family. Although all this plan, since eternity, was in the heart of the Eternal, this one only came to the knowledge of all mankind after Christ’s death. Only the angels had a vague idea of this plan of the Eternal (see Job 38.7).

That Jesus fill our inside with everything relating to the life and piety (2Peter 1.3) so that we can contribute for that the Eternal’s plan for your Church fulfill itself in this world, namely, make known to principalities and powers in heaven His manifold grace and wisdom.