To whom do we confess our sins?

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh

 

 

 

The RCC is not the NT Church and never was. They don't believe the pure Gospel of Jesus. So I don't identify Catholics as Christians.    Thus their doctrine of confession to a priest for absolution of sin is not a Christian doctrine.

 

 

Again for the second time your accusation is historically incorrect....the RCC did not invent this. As I said to you please do your research and you will find a number of churches in the first millennium confessions to priests.

 

 

 

the notion that we have to go to a priest to have our sins absolved...  Yeah, that was invented by the RCC. 

If God has already forgiven all of a man’s sins, or will forgive them all (past and future) upon a single act of repentance, then it makes little sense to tell the apostles they have been given the power to "retain" sins, since forgiveness would be all-or-nothing and nothing could be "retained."

 

So Jesus who commands forgiveness gives his apostles the power and authority to withhold forgiveness?   Why would He do that?  

The problem is that your unregenerate mind doesn't understand what is actually happening in that passage.    Jesus was not giving them the authority to remove spiritual guilt.   He was giving them the authority to adjudicate in the Messianic community, to settle disputes.  Forgiving and retaining sin refers to judicial decisions about civil disputes.   Goes back to the "keys to the kingdom."   It refers to rabbinic authority. 

What you fundamentally missed in John 20:23 was Christ giving the disciples the command of blowing the holy spirit on then to not go out and preach in this passage but to go out and forgive .

I am not missing anything at all.  I completely grasp what you're saying.  You simply don't seem to understand that I don't accept anything you teach because you do not have the Holy Spirit.  You are a sinner and I don't listen to or accept what sinners say about the Bible.   You have no authority here to teach, as you are unregenerate.   The only reason I am willing to even talk to you is so that others will not agree with you and to discredit your teachings so that you can't lead others astray.     You don't know Jesus and are not qualified to tell us about Jesus.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Roman Catholicism says to confess our sins to a priest.

Which is correct?

We confess our sins to God, only.

We confess our faults to other believers.  

Faults and sins are not the same thing.

Correct. But this is a good example of corrupting the Bible text to change doctrine.

TEXTUS RECEPTUS paraptoma = faults

ἐξομολογεῖσθε ἀλλήλοις τὰ παραπτώματα, καὶ εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων ὅπως ἰαθῆτε πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη

CRITICAL TEXTS  hamartia = sins

ἐξομολογεῖσθε οὖν ἀλλήλοις τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ προσεύχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων, ὅπως ἰαθῆτε. πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη.

The critical texts have relied entirely on corrupted Greek manuscripts so "faults" has been changed to "sins" and εὔχεσθε has been changed to προσεύχεσθε .  Also please note how the Catholic Douay-Rheims version changes "healed" to "saved", even though the word iaomai means "healed".  That is a doctrinal change since the Catholic Church introduced the Confessional as well as other erroneous doctrines and practices.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

King James Bible
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Strong's Concordance

iaomai: to heal

Original Word: ἰάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: iaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.

John 20:23

ἄν τινων ἀφῆτε τὰς ἁμαρτίαςἀφέωνται αὐτοῖς· ἄν τινωνκρατῆτε κεκράτηνται. 

 

• ἀφῆτε aphēte

   
  ἀφῆτε aphēte leave; forgive
  verb, aorist, active, subjunctive, second person, plural
  • CDWGTHB
• ἁμαρτίας hamartias

   
  ἁμαρτίας hamartias sin
  noun, accusative

The word used in John 20:23 is clearly

sin and not faults.

 

this is taken from Logos bible software

which is Protestant and NOT Catholic

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh

Your lossing your grip here.....I am convinced more more you are bi polar.  

My only hope with our discussions is not what your motives are but hope that one day you and I can have a civil conversation, without this childish mud sling. It really is tiring,  I'm sure not just for me but others.

Perhaps one day we would be friends, but I'm afraid your ego and temper is very much a glass bowl of emotions. It's not healthy. You are very sensitive. 

I do think under that insecure pretentiousness you might actually be a descent man and not some boy who can't control his temper under the guise of you doing God's will of Judgement and the arm of his wrath.

If anything that can be learnt in this discussion is forgiveness and reconciliation between two people. The practice of love for fellow humans to walk inchrist I motto I live by and do fail at times but none the less practice make perfect.

You have never met me nor understand my full complexity of my belief and my faith with Christ in order for you to have such a distaste to a fellow human being. 

I'm not here to teach I'm here to learn which I've been doing for all my life, for every topic I get involved in i conduct research as objective as possible and not force any form of doctrines into my studies.

God knows my heart,  you don't. I really do think you need to go get help with how to control your temper. 

There are amazing people on here, who I'm sure can offer guidance and coach you in how to address  this problem. 

If anything I think you need a hug

I am not slinging mud.   You are not a believer.  You have deceived yourself into thinking that you can reject Jesus as God, but still accept Him otherwise and in doing so, you promote one heresy after another because you have a heretical view of Jesus.   That is not mudslinging.  That is just the truth.

[Guest shiloh357]

Roman Catholicism says to confess our sins to a priest.

Which is correct?

We confess our sins to God, only.

We confess our faults to other believers.  

Faults and sins are not the same thing.

Correct. But this is a good example of corrupting the Bible text to change doctrine.

TEXTUS RECEPTUS paraptoma = faults

ἐξομολογεῖσθε ἀλλήλοις τὰ παραπτώματα, καὶ εὔχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων ὅπως ἰαθῆτε πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη

CRITICAL TEXTS  hamartia = sins

ἐξομολογεῖσθε οὖν ἀλλήλοις τὰς ἁμαρτίας καὶ προσεύχεσθε ὑπὲρ ἀλλήλων, ὅπως ἰαθῆτε. πολὺ ἰσχύει δέησις δικαίου ἐνεργουμένη.

The critical texts have relied entirely on corrupted Greek manuscripts so "faults" has been changed to "sins" and εὔχεσθε has been changed to προσεύχεσθε .  Also please note how the Catholic Douay-Rheims version changes "healed" to "saved", even though the word iaomai means "healed".  That is a doctrinal change since the Catholic Church introduced the Confessional as well as other erroneous doctrines and practices.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

King James Bible
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Strong's Concordance

iaomai: to heal

Original Word: ἰάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: iaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.

 

John 20:23

ἄν τινων ἀφῆτε τὰς ἁμαρτίαςἀφέωνται αὐτοῖς· ἄν τινωνκρατῆτε κεκράτηνται. 

 

• ἀφῆτε aphēte

   
  ἀφῆτε aphēte leave; forgive
  verb, aorist, active, subjunctive, second person, plural
  • CDWGTHB
• ἁμαρτίας hamartias

   
  ἁμαρτίας hamartias sin
  noun, accusative

The word used in John 20:23 is clearly

sin and not faults.

 

this is taken from Logos bible software

which is Protestant and NOT Catholic

You need to learn the difference between lexical definitions of a given word and how the word is actually used in a given text.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Shiloh, you claimed in a thread that hamartis meant fault in Greek. So with all due respect, I don't think I'll look to you for my learning on the subject. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, you claimed in a thread that hamartis meant fault in Greek. So with all due respect, I don't think I'll look to you for my learning on the subject. 

No, I didn't.  I said that the word used for "sin"  James 5 about confessing one's faults isn't the word hamartia.  it is a different word in Greek.   Maybe you need to look to someone to teach you how to read.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Shiloh, you claimed in a thread that hamartis meant fault in Greek. So with all due respect, I don't think I'll look to you for my learning on the subject. 

No, I didn't.  I said that the word used for "sin"  James 5 about confessing one's faults isn't the word hamartia.  it is a different word in Greek.   Maybe you need to look to someone to teach you how to read.

I didn't say this thread Shiloh. I said a thread referring to another thread. So perhaps you can keep the personal attacks to yourself. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, you claimed in a thread that hamartis meant fault in Greek. So with all due respect, I don't think I'll look to you for my learning on the subject. 

No, I didn't.  I said that the word used for "sin"  James 5 about confessing one's faults isn't the word hamartia.  it is a different word in Greek.   Maybe you need to look to someone to teach you how to read.

I didn't say this thread Shiloh. I said a thread referring to another thread. So perhaps you can keep the personal attacks to yourself. 

I have never said that on any thread that I can recall.  Which thread was it?

 

[hmbld]

 

The practice of reconciliation 

here you rightly speak, confessing to those you have offended brings reconciliation.  Forgiveness of sins is only possible through Jesus alone, He is our one and only mediator. 

 

And you should be aware that when there are two or more people in a room Christ is with you.  

which has nothing to do with the fact that no man or priest is needed for forgiveness of sins. I see the merge your speaking of. There is a distinction Shiloh speaks of I believe is important to keep clear. Men are always seeking power when the power is God's. Our example is to serve, not to lord over believing we can forgive sin. 

Perhaps then this can ease your mind

 Paul writes: I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men: For kings, and for all who are in high stations; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all piety and chastity.  or this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to a knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave Himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.  Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle, (I say the truth, I lie not), a doctor of the gentiles in truth and faith.  I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger or contention (1 Timothy 2:1-8).  

 In context Paul is saying that we are able to offer prayers, supplications, intercessions, etc. for all men since we are in the one mediator, Christ Jesus.  Many begin reading this at verse 5 ignoring the context.  One doesn’t begin a new thought with the word “for.”  Jesus uses men to bring other men to Him.  God used men to pen the Bible.  He uses men to preach.

 Not many of us become Christians as Paul did—we don’t get knocked down by a light in the desert.  Instead we become Christians through God's use of men—men who preach, men who publish Bibles, etc.  

Paul heard the gospel from Jesus Himself on the road to Damascus.  But even Paul had to go to the church to be baptized and have his sins washed away (Acts 22:10-16) and to be ordained (Gal 2:9).  No one baptizes himself.  Why is that, if we do not need to go to any man?

 

I had to reread this 3 times lol.  I just do not see how you go from praying, supplications, intercessions, to where you are trying to go.  I've wondered many times if nobody was taught by a church that men can absolve sin, just how rare it would be for someone to make that leap by reading scripture themselves.  I see by your comments to Shiloh your mind is made up, I don't see the point in continuing to disagree with you, God bless you!

[InSeasonOut]

I've heard a lot about accountability, but not much in the Bible. Sins and faults aren't the same. If you've wronged a brother of course you should confess that to him, but if you sinned against God, confess that sin to God - not man - not even a brother... I'm accountable to God - not man. There is one mediator....

For example... a Christian should not shame himself by confessing to a brother that he looked at something sinful on the internet.

Theres a heretical ministry i know of that helps Christians stay accountable to each other but tracking internet history... I don't agree with that.