WHO IS THE BEAST OR WHAT IS THE BEAST AND WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

[Spock]

So, did we ever come up with a final answer as to where Azazel is today?

a.  In the Abyss.  Or.   B.  Buried in the desert somewhere in the Middle East? 

[other one]

19 minutes ago, Spock said:

So, did we ever come up with a final answer as to where Azazel is today?

a.  In the Abyss.  Or.   B.  Buried in the desert somewhere in the Middle East? 

Where do we find who Azazel is?

[Spock]

On November 30, 2015 at 6:08 PM, other one said:

Enoch does not say he is in the Abyss....    he is alone burried in the desert   It appears to me that you are stretching and putting things together that don't belong.

Hi other one,

i try to take a literal interpretation when such is possible, but do you really believe some horrendous evil angel is "buried" in some desert in Egypt?  That sounds symbolic to me.  What do ya think? 

[Spock]

My two cents about Rev 13:1-10

The Beast out of the Sea

13 The dragon[a] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.[b]

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,
    into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
    with the sword they will be killed.”[d]

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

 

Spock's musings:

1. Beast coming out of the sea with 10 horns and 7 heads is not a man- probably a kingdom/empire that controlled Promise Land

2. The beast is empowered by Satan 

3. The beast resembled a leopard, bear, lion- I'm thinking this is a contemporary interpretation not a historical one. 

4. One of the heads seemed to have a fatal wound- this is not talking about some man who was shot in the head (sorry JFK conspirators) I see this as one of the nations/ kingdoms

5. The beast is pretty powerful because people are in awe of his power to kick butt

6. The beast was given power for 42 months which is 3.5 years which is 1260 days.  I'm taking this LITERALLY. Sorry to some who see this as 1260 years.  I think the last 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week.

7. The beast is also kicking butt on God's holy people. Hmmmmm. I'm thinking Jews for sure and, ready for this?......the saints who are not ready, worthy, and single minded in their devotion and love to God. Read Gods admonition to the 7 churches in Rev 2-3. The church of Philadelphia saints will be raptured, but that is all folks. Thus, most of the "believers who trust in Christ for salvation but do not trust him to be their LORD will have to experience this tribulation."  (I hope you still love me if if we disagree.)

8. The 5 foolish virgins who were not ready will have to exercise patience and perseverance.  God is still your Father even through these troubled times. (The 5 ready virgins will be partying down in Heaven.)

 

How did I do? I definitely want and value your feedback, whether you agree or disagree.

 

spock out

 

[other one]

30 minutes ago, Spock said:

Hi other one,

i try to take a literal interpretation when such is possible, but do you really believe some horrendous evil angel is "buried" in some desert in Egypt?  That sounds symbolic to me.  What do ya think? 

I think when God plants you somewhere......   you're planted till he lets you up....      in Tartarus, or under a big rock in the desert...    I'm guessing face down under a big rock in the desert for he was very instrumental for the downfall of mankind before the flood. Solitary confinement until the fires of hell are stoked would be my guess.

[WilliamL]

3 hours ago, Spock said:

...Have you read any of Michael Fortner?  I just finished one of his books. Interesting perspective, making me think and question even more. 

Up until recently, I saw the rapture after the 6th seal, when God's wrath BEGINS. It seemed obvious to me that the raptured saints are there in Rev 7: 9-17.  This is the pre-wrath interpretation which makes sense- "we are not appointed unto wrath.." According to Paul in Thessalonians .  

Fortner sees the rapture at 7th trumpet, not 7th seal.  I'm not sure.  What are your thoughts on this?  Any thoughts, links, books would be appreciated. You can do by private email as well.

Your second paragraph has the essence of 6th Seal/pre-wrath/post-trib correct. For a brief summary, see my last post on the post- trib pre-wrath topic at the top of the Eschatology page.

I'm not familiar with Fortner, but am with the 7th Trumpet view, also held by Last Daze. My view in short: the Rapture of the Elect comes at the 6th seal; the establishment of Christ's earthly Davidic kingdom comes at the 7th Trumpet. The former is the heavenly realm of the spiritual, the latter is soul-is-in-the-blood(line) earthly realm. The former must be established before the latter.

[WilliamL]

28 minutes ago, Spock said:

Spock's musings:

 

1. Beast coming out of the sea with 10 horns and 7 heads is not a man- probably a kingdom/empire that controlled Promise Land

 

The Beast is the one who ascends out of the Abyss: the only other beast in Rev. is the False Prophet. Both are angelic spirits, each of even greater power and authority than the spirits that rule over nations, such as the "princes" of Persia and Greece of Daniel 10. The Beast and his heads are empire-level spirits, while those other two are only nation-level spirits.

4. One of the heads seemed to have a fatal wound- this is not talking about some man who was shot in the head (sorry JFK conspirators) I see this as one of the nations/ kingdoms

This was the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 AD, which was revived in the Holy Roman Empire first established in 800 AD, when the pope crowned Charlemagne to be Emperor.

8. The 5 foolish virgins who were not ready will have to exercise patience and perseverance.  God is still your Father even through these troubled times. (The 5 ready virgins will be partying down in Heaven.)

True.

13:5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.

The mouth of the Beast is not the Beast, it is his spokesman, just as Aaron was Moses' "mouth"/spokesman. Ex. 4:14-16 This human spokesman will reign for 1260 days, but the Beast will hold power much longer.

[Spock]

Thanks for your quick reply William. 

1. After I typed what I did, my wife reminded me along the line you take, maybe that beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is a super spiritual entity controlling those nations/empires.  That can work too!

 

2. Now to your other point: the fatal head would occurring when Rome was conquered by all those Goths in 476 and then healed in 800 under Charlemagne.  I suppose this could fit but I need more time and research to fully adapt this thinking.   I recently read something that caught my eye: the Ottoman Turk Empire that  ended around WW1, and apparently today is being revived.  But, honestly, I'm in the dark and definitely can not be dogmatic here. I'm reading with open eyes. 

 

I appreciate ate your spirit as well as your faithfulness to study God's word. 

 

Your bro,

spock

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

My two cents about Rev 13:1-10

The Beast out of the Sea

13 The dragon[a] stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.[b]

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,
    into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
    with the sword they will be killed.”[d]

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

 

Spock's musings:

1. Beast coming out of the sea with 10 horns and 7 heads is not a man- probably a kingdom/empire that controlled Promise Land

2. The beast is empowered by Satan 

3. The beast resembled a leopard, bear, lion- I'm thinking this is a contemporary interpretation not a historical one. 

4. One of the heads seemed to have a fatal wound- this is not talking about some man who was shot in the head (sorry JFK conspirators) I see this as one of the nations/ kingdoms

5. The beast is pretty powerful because people are in awe of his power to kick butt

6. The beast was given power for 42 months which is 3.5 years which is 1260 days.  I'm taking this LITERALLY. Sorry to some who see this as 1260 years.  I think the last 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week.

7. The beast is also kicking butt on God's holy people. Hmmmmm. I'm thinking Jews for sure and, ready for this?......the saints who are not ready, worthy, and single minded in their devotion and love to God. Read Gods admonition to the 7 churches in Rev 2-3. The church of Philadelphia saints will be raptured, but that is all folks. Thus, most of the "believers who trust in Christ for salvation but do not trust him to be their LORD will have to experience this tribulation."  (I hope you still love me if if we disagree.)

8. The 5 foolish virgins who were not ready will have to exercise patience and perseverance.  God is still your Father even through these troubled times. (The 5 ready virgins will be partying down in Heaven.)

 

How did I do? I definitely want and value your feedback, whether you agree or disagree.

 

spock out

 

Hi Spock,

I think you did very, very well, IMHO. I would differ on No. 4.  though. Have another think - `Heads` mean shared power & are represented by leaders. This specific leader has a deadly wound but then comes to life, (false resurrection) Then we read that the people of the world are  agog, & think well who can go against him now. For people to follow the A/C, this false resurrection would be like Christ rising from the dead. Make sense?

To me `the beast` means the Global Government & also the leader of that. You see the formation of the nations described in the `beast,` & we are also told that there are 7 heads, meaning (I believe) 7 leaders who have ruled consecutively, till the last leader, the A/C.

Marilyn.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Spock]

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

I think you did very, very well, IMHO. I would differ on No. 4.  though. Have another think - `Heads` mean shared power & are represented by leaders. This specific leader has a deadly wound but then comes to life, (false resurrection) Then we read that the people of the world are  agog, & think well who can go against him now. For people to follow the A/C, this false resurrection would be like Christ rising from the dead. Make sense?

Marilyn.

Thanks Marilyn.  Coming from you, this means a lot to me. 

It absolutely makes sense if you interpret the 7 heads to mean 7 earthly leaders make up this beast out of the sea. Very logical to think one head (one leader) could get shot or stabbed and appear dead, then wa-la....resurrected.  When the world sees this, yes, I could see the world in awe.

Now is this the correct way of interpreting this passage?  Might be.  Hmmmmm. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.