Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 7:03 PM, ARGOSY said:

I find its strange that you relate the beginning to WITHIN the seven days, when the bible places the beginning as BEFORE the seven days of creation:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ² Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

³ And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. ⁴ God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. ⁵ God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

You see that?  In the beginning was the formless earth (land) and then light was created which made the first 24 hour day possible.  Whether you believe its planet earth or land, this earth existed before the first day making a young earth scenario unbiblical. Honestly let's just stick to the bible guys, why introduce a new timeframe that contradicts the bible, and then swear your view is more biblical. It smacks of indoctrination when the wording is pretty simple.

  

[Kan]

What if the first verses are an introduction to the whole topic?

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 7:03 AM, ARGOSY said:

 

The Nt was written in Greek. I am not sure why you are using common Greek usage of words to explain the meaning of Hebrew words.

As for the Old Testament:

Isa 45:12

12 I have made the earth (erets/land) , and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

 

This planet earth was a ball of ocean.  God made the land, and created man upon it.

The KJV is the only accurate translation.  At that time the word "earth" meant soil/land in English.  Since then the English word has changed meaning, yet translators have incorrectly carried on using the word "earth" which now means "planet earth".  God created dry land, and placed man on that land. The actual Hebrew should read like this:

⁹ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry ground appear: and it was so.¹⁰ And God called the dry ground "land"; and the gathering together of the waters called he seas: and God saw that it was good.

Can you explain , "This planet earth was a ball of ocean " ? It makes no sense to me .

[Kan]

That would be the earth supposedly covered with water

[Guest Thallasa]

20 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Exactly. There is just a bit of overlap between them and early post-flood mankind. For example you can see them depicted in the Narmer Tablets.  And Sumerian seals etc  And more recently further evidence has surfaced.  But it can be debated, that many dinos were of amphibuous origin.  for example if you flood all continents right now, what would crawl up onto the land in great numbers?  Sea turtles, sea crocs, sea snakes etc. Because they have multiple eggs, and lacking any predators they could flourish. The turtles would have to adapt into tortoises and learn to move very rapidly, but a few generations of selective breeding would do that (without any need for mutations, just natural changes to  allele frequencies). Nature often shows these rapid changes. Just so happens the variety in amphibuous reptiles was far greater before the flood, and the variety and adaptation after the flood very rapid. Combined with a hot greenhouse climate and huge continental landmasses, huge sizes could be attained. (size having a direct relation to continental landmass)

 

So while previously amphibuous reptiles rapidly populate continents, mankind has just 8 people, slowly increasing in numbers every 20 years or so.  The two only came into contact across a small area of early civilisation, Egypt and Sumeria (and Indus valley?). Then around the same time all those advanced civilisations were wiped out, along with the dinosaurs and sudden climate change (ice age) throughout earth. So there are logical biblical reasons for only a small overlap between early man (very few in number) and the masses of dinosaurs. Please note that all the earliest cities had very high defensive walls.

 

   Fascinating .

[ARGOSY]

9 minutes ago, Kan said:

What if the first verses are an introduction to the whole topic?

It sure is. So there is ambiguity there.  Is it a summary of the chapter, or does it begin the order of events?  The wording is not clear enough.  I personally believe the first few words are a summary, followed be a sequential order of events. Let me paraphrase it in my own wording:

In the beginning (of Man's story) God made the dry land and the sky.   

Before this,  the land was formless and empty below the ocean, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Then light filtered down to the surface where the spirit of God was, and there was the first day. Then God made the expanse between the ocean and the cloudy mists, and there was visible sky.  Then dry land appeared out of the ocean.   Then God produced the sun and the moon and the stars as visibility improved and these could be seen through the misty cloudy sky.

So the way I see it is just one possibility, the entire universe being created in creation week is another possibility. 

[ARGOSY]

12 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

Can you explain , "This planet earth was a ball of ocean " ? It makes no sense to me .

On the surface there was no land. Just sea.  Obviously the core of the planet was the same as today..

1 In the beginning God created the sky and the land. ² Now the land was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 ⁹ And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. ¹⁰ God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

 

Its seems pretty clear?

[hmbld]

2 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

It sure is. So there is ambiguity there.  Is it a summary of the chapter, or does it begin the order of events?  The wording is not clear enough.  I personally believe the first few words are a summary, followed be a sequential order of events. Let me paraphrase it in my own wording:

In the beginning (of Man's story) God made the dry land and the sky.   

Before this,  the land was formless and empty below the ocean, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Then light filtered down to the surface where the spirit of God was, and there was the first day. Then God made the expanse between the ocean and the cloudy mists, and there was visible sky.  Then dry land appeared out of the ocean.   Then God produced the sun and the moon and the stars as visibility improved and these could be seen through the misty cloudy sky.

So the way I see it is just one possibility, the entire universe being created in creation week is another possibility. 

I agree the wording is not clear, however, if the earth was formless and empty before "in the beginning", then you have a problem of something being created before time began, for all things were created in those 6 days.  Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

[hmbld]

Mark 10:6 also states what happened in the beginning.

 But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female.

I still say its hard to have something materially existing before the beginning. 

[ARGOSY]

3 minutes ago, hmbld said:

I agree the wording is not clear, however, if the earth was formless and empty before "in the beginning", then you have a problem of something being created before time began, for all things were created in those 6 days.  Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Does the bible say in the "beginning of time"    No, you are assuming that. The text does not say that

Does the bible say "in the begining of Mankind's story"      No, I just assume it's about man's story. There's the angel's story. There are many wonderful things happening for billions of years before God decided to make Man or even this particular dimension/universe

Who is right?  We cannot say. Context is just not clear what was "beginning"..   I believe Genesis 1 is about Mankind's story. God making a formless, empty, watery planet into a habitable planet to create mankind.  But the wording is not 100% clear. Neither can I be proved wrong.