DO YOU BELIEVE ITS OKAY TO EAT PORK, AS A BELIEVER IN GOD ?

[BobRyan]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

We are justified by faith alone.  We are not justified by keeping the dietary commandments.

It is true that the Bible does have in it the phrase - "justified by faith alone". It occurs one time in scripture. You can find it in James 2.

But we are no more justified by "not taking God's name in vain" than justified by "dietary commandments" (A phrase not found in scripture at all)

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

It is true that the Bible does have in it the phrase - "justified by faith alone". It occurs one time in scripture. You can find it in James 2.

But we are no more justified by "not taking God's name in vain" than justified by "dietary commandments" (A phrase not found in scripture at all)

The point I am making is that eating pork or not eating pork does not have any bearing on salvation. 

[BobRyan]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

None of us, in our right minds, eat diseased beef, so that is kind of a non-starter.  

Indeed you would "think" that a prohibition against eating diseased beef and eating rats - would not get so much opposition ... just because it is in Lev 11.

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

What is getting opposition isn't Leviticus 11.   It is your mishandling of that chapter that is being opposed. 

Not so far on this thread. So far the mere mention of Lev 11 is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to the text of scripture. EVEN when the reference to it is to the least offensive of all statements prohibiting the eating of diseased beef and rats, dogs, cats, bats... those who will not tolerate event that statement by God in his Word - would likely not tolerate even more direct quotes from that text of scripture.

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

 

We simply think you're wrong in claiming that Gentile Christians are obligated to Leviticus 11.

Now that is true. The idea the Christians are free to eat diseased beef, rats, take drugs, defile their bodies is argued because the speculation that God does not condemn rebellion against His Word "if one feels like ignore that part of God's Word" and that God also does not care when we damage our bodies in direct rebellion against His Word forbidding it -- seems to be a popular "tradition".

So be it - everyone has free will -- they can choose as they please. This is not even my thread.

I just think it is "instructive" that even the slightest instruction from God's Word in Lev 11 prohibiting the eating of diseased meat and rats - is strongly condemned by "some" on this thread.

[BobRyan]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The point I am making is that eating pork or not eating pork does not have any bearing on salvation. 

In my view God's Word "matters" and he condemns the eating of diseased meat, rats, cats, dogs, bats etc in Lev 11. He made them all - He knows what He is talking about.

He also condemned the idea of damaging one's body in 1 Cor 3 and 1Cor 6.

And He makes this case in 1 John 5:2 "this IS the Love of God - that we keep His commandments"

Having said that - I agree that you have free will and can do as you please with any part of God's Word.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, BobRyan said:

 

Not so far on this thread. So far the mere mention of Lev 11 is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to the text of scripture. EVEN when the reference to it is to the least offensive of all statements prohibiting the eating of diseased beef and rats, dogs, cats, bats... those who will not tolerate event that statement by God in his Word - would likely not tolerate even more direct quotes from that text of scripture.

 

You're reading the opposition wrong.   The ONLY opposition on this thread is to the argument that Gentile Christians are obligated to adhere to the dietary laws of Lev. 11.

I really don't care what you eat or don't eat.   None of us oppose any Scripture.  We oppose your attempt to obligated us to Scriptures that were given to Israel, not to the Church.

Quote

Now that is true. The idea the Christians are free to eat diseased beef, rats, take drugs, defile their bodies is argued because the speculation that God does not condemn rebellion against His Word "if one feels like ignore that part of God's Word" and that God also does not care when we damage our bodies in direct rebellion against His Word forbidding it -- seems to be a popular "tradition".

That is a dishonest representation of our objection.   Gentile Christians are not obligated to the dietary laws and so are not in rebellion by not adhering to them.  

Quote

I just think it is "instructive" that even the slightest instruction from God's Word in Lev 11 prohibiting the eating of diseased meat and rats - is strongly condemned by "some" on this thread.

No one has condmned Lev. 11.   We do condemn your mishandling of it and your misrepresentation of our objection to your line of argumentation.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

In my view God's Word "matters" and he condemns the eating of diseased meat, rats, cats, dogs, bats etc in Lev 11. He made them all - He knows what He is talking about.

 

What does that have to do with how we receive salvation?

[BobRyan]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The point I am making is that eating pork or not eating pork does not have any bearing on salvation. 

In my view God's Word "matters" and he condemns the eating of diseased meat, rats, cats, dogs, bats etc in Lev 11. He made them all - He knows what He is talking about.

He also condemned the idea of damaging one's body in 1 Cor 3 and 1Cor 6.

And He makes this case in 1 John 5:2 "this IS the Love of God - that we keep His commandments"

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

What does that have to do with how we receive salvation?

Your question is left as an exercise for the reader -- since to me the fact that God's Word matters, that Love for God is shown by keeping His Commandments - and that His Word says not to destroy ourselves -- explicitly listing things like eating diseased meat, rats, cats, dogs, bats... What drug addict could not respond with "yeah but what does drug abuse have to do with salvation - drug abuse is not listed in Acts 15??, it only damages my body".

As I said - you have free will - you can choose whatever you wish. This is not my thread in the first place - but I don't really have a problem quoting and believing God's Word in Lev 11 - no matter the objections of others. Diseased meat is not for me.

 

Here is instruction that Christians should not be drug abusers, should not eat diseased meat, should not do themselves harm.

1Cor 6: 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”  17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Cor 3: 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

 

Isaiah 66 - the end of the world

And His indignation to His enemies. 15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by His sword The Lord will judge all flesh; And the slain of the Lord shall be many.

17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

6 hours ago, BobRyan said:

In my view God's Word "matters" and he condemns the eating of diseased meat, rats, cats, dogs, bats etc in Lev 11. He made them all - He knows what He is talking about.

He also condemned the idea of damaging one's body in 1 Cor 3 and 1Cor 6.

And He makes this case in 1 John 5:2 "this IS the Love of God - that we keep His commandments"

 

You appear to be unable to make your case when it comes to eating non-diseased animals.   None of us here are advocating eating dogs or cats or diseased animals. 

The issue here is theological.   Where are Christians obligated to refrain from eating non-diseased things like pork, catfish, shellfish, etc.?

Quote

Here is instruction that Christians should not be drug abusers, should not eat diseased meat, should not do themselves harm.

Actually I Cor. 6:15 is talking about sexual immorality.   It has nothing to do with taking drugs or eating anything, really.  So you are misapplying that verse to an issue it was not meant to address.

I Cor. 3:16 is referring to a corporate temple, the body of Christ, the Church.   He is talking about those who are damaging the Church as a whole.

Is. 66:15-17 isn't talking about Christians who eat pork.   It is talking about God's wrath on the pagan enemies of Israel at the 2nd coming just before the onset of the Millennium.

[enoob57]

12 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The point I am making is that eating pork or not eating pork does not have any bearing on salvation. 

 

12 hours ago, BobRyan said:

In my view God's Word "matters" and he condemns the eating of diseased meat, rats, cats, dogs, bats etc in Lev 11. He made them all - He knows what He is talking about.

He also condemned the idea of damaging one's body in 1 Cor 3 and 1Cor 6.

And He makes this case in 1 John 5:2 "this IS the Love of God - that we keep His commandments"

Having said that - I agree that you have free will and can do as you please with any part of God's Word.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)

[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Bob let me encourage you to step back and analyze the whole of Scripture... when God gave us His Law, His Word we had already fallen into sin, and God has cursed the earth because of that sin... also our bodies are judged 'from dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return'...   Now you seem to be trying to reverse the physical realties that these bodies are our new bodies or that we are improving these bodies to be as new bodies (that is error)... We are at war with our flesh and the world we are in and the enemy wants to confuse us to bring that which we are at war with into our camp as ally to the cause of Christ. Love, Steven 

[BobRyan]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

You appear to be unable to make your case when it comes to eating non-diseased animals. [/quote]

Really? -- rats cats dogs bats???

On the contrary - I don't think you have made your case that God wants us to eat rats - even though His word forbids it.

If your doctor said "I want you to stop eating diseased meat and rats - this will greatly improve your health"

And you said "ok - but are you  saying that because God's Word forbids eating such things in Lev 11 or for some other reason"

And your doctor said "I happen to be an atheist - I don't care at all what the Bible said.. Do it because I am your doctor"

And then  would you REALLY say "well ok -because YOU said it - but not because the Bible said it...for sure not for that reason, because the Bible is imagined to say that rats are ok for food even though we both know that is crazy to do in real life".

This is the form of the case you have made so far....and then you respond with "you have not made your case"???

When you "allow God" to speak against "diseased meats" in Lev 11 but not against eating rats -- just who is it that is "not making their case so far"???