And Science Says Our Gap Theory Is Bad...

[gdemoss]

13 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Show me in Genesis on what Creation day Lucifer was created?

Why do you ask for a specific day?  I can say I believe it was on day one personally.

[gdemoss]

11 hours ago, Bonky said:

If God knew in advance that Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels would rebel then I'd say he has some culpability in allowing sin to enter into the equation [reality].   I'm not sure how anyone would suggest otherwise. 

What I find truly mind boggling is how any creature could exist in heaven and be tempted to turn away and go the other direction.

Good response.  I agree.  God has some culpability.  Jesus is that.  Jesus makes right all the wrong other created beings have done.  He makes a way.

Point two is answered in that they didn't know they would end up expelled from heaven.  They thought they would win. 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

8 hours ago, gdemoss said:

Why do you ask for a specific day?  I can say I believe it was on day one personally.

But you have no Biblical basis for that while there is Biblical basis for Lucifer's creation and fall of 1/3 of the angels before creation began, as Hazard pointed out in his detailed reply.  You can't discount scripture because it does agree with your personal theology.

[As a personal note, when I first started posting on Worthy under this name and my other name, Nobody-2441, I was a die-hard Calvinist.  Six weeks or so ago, God illuminated some scriptures to me in Job (which I wasn't even reading at the time).  Since then, I am a free will believer.  When the Holy Spirit is speaking to you, you must listen.  You wouldn't believe the heated arguments, the name-calling, the questioning of my salvation, I was under defending Calvinism.  But at a quiet time, the Holy Spirit spoke to me and I saw the truth that was always there, in Job.  Just a side note.  If I'm wrong about the Gap Principle, the Holy Spirit will tell me.]

[HAZARD]

Get a lump of coal and have it carbon date it, you will get a surprise. It will be a lot older than 6,000 years.

Google bell found in coal. A beautiful golden bell with an angelic being as the handle found in a large lump of coal which smashed when dropped exposing the bell. Now how did that happen?

I never believed, I doubted what I was taught in school regarding God and the creation of the entire universe and the earth in six days, until I did my own studies trying to disprove the Bible. It was when I discovered there was a rebellion led by Lucifer some time in the distant past that caused God to destroy the Earth, flood it, and turn of the lights I because a believer. This made sense, this was truth, this was the Word of God, which many do not believe, scoffers! 2 Peter 3:3-7.

I worked in the coal industry as a miner for over 40 years. Coal is formed by huge amounts of vegetation collecting in a certain place and being compressed by massive weight over a very long period of time, mostly millions of years.

I have mined coal beneath many hundreds of feet of SOLID ROCK.  I have seen coal seams 40 and 50 feet thick and some only one or two feet thick. I have seen coal seams, one not far from my home now, being mined, not lying buried horizontally as most are but which stands vertically as if it was spewed up out of a volcano's core like liquid lava and solidified.

One seam in particular, which I have worked for over ten years, in one place was only inches below the surface top soil, getting deeper as we gradually open cut mined this for about 4 miles in a westerly direction, the seam was 3 miles wide and between 40 and fifty feet thick.  How and when did this seam get to the surface and break away from the main seam. We continued to mine this for several years till we reached a fault where this same seam was lost until we drilled searching for it and found it again about 150 feet below the surface, still 40 to 50 feet thick and 3 miles wide.

Only a global upheaval such as occurred during God's great anger when Heaven was invaded by Lucifer, and God destroyed the Earth and all in it, and turned it upside down. Noah's flood could never have destroyed and buried so much vegetation and turn it into coal is such a short period of time.

How about sea shells found on mountain tops, and also in mines hundreds of feet below the surface?  I brough home many fossilised leaves, tree branches and other such things for my grandchildren,.

 

[gdemoss]

14 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

But you have no Biblical basis for that while there is Biblical basis for Lucifer's creation and fall of 1/3 of the angels before creation began, as Hazard pointed out in his detailed reply.  You can't discount scripture because it does agree with your personal theology.

[As a personal note, when I first started posting on Worthy under this name and my other name, Nobody-2441, I was a die-hard Calvinist.  Six weeks or so ago, God illuminated some scriptures to me in Job (which I wasn't even reading at the time).  Since then, I am a free will believer.  When the Holy Spirit is speaking to you, you must listen.  You wouldn't believe the heated arguments, the name-calling, the questioning of my salvation, I was under defending Calvinism.  But at a quiet time, the Holy Spirit spoke to me and I saw the truth that was always there, in Job.  Just a side note.  If I'm wrong about the Gap Principle, the Holy Spirit will tell me.]

Thanks for sharing where you are at.  I can appreciate the upheval in a persons life when moved to change fundamental beliefs.  Not that I have no biblical support for my position.  I didn't share my methodology for arriving at my conclusion.  You see, you reject the scriptures that day God created everything in six days if there has to be all of this other stuff Hazard is interpreting the scriptures to say.  At that point I have to decide what God would have me to do with my time for it would take time that is better spent doing hands on work with the unsaved to work with others  hammering out a non salvic issue.  

Can you say with any certainty that when God said let there be light that that light wasn't the light bearer?  I can neither prove it true or false.  I too read the scriptures concerning the morning stars singing and must allow for it to fit.

Have fun in your studies and God speed toward truth brother! 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

2 minutes ago, gdemoss said:

Thanks for sharing where you are at.  I can appreciate the upheval in a persons life when moved to change fundamental beliefs.  Not that I have no biblical support for my position.  I didn't share my methodology for arriving at my conclusion.  You see, you reject the scriptures that day God created everything in six days if there has to be all of this other stuff Hazard is interpreting the scriptures to say.  At that point I have to decide what God would have me to do with my time for it would take time that is better spent doing hands on work with the unsaved to work with others  hammering out a non salvic issue.  

Can you say with any certainty that when God said let there be light that that light wasn't the light bearer?  I can neither prove it true or false.  I too read the scriptures concerning the morning stars singing and must allow for it to fit.

Have fun in your studies and God speed toward truth brother! 

Thank you and I, of course, wish you the same.  I've been studying both sides of the creation account.  I believe God's restoration of Earth took six days as His word says.

[gdemoss]

2 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Thank you and I, of course, wish you the same.  I've been studying both sides of the creation account.  I believe God's restoration of Earth took six days as His word says.

We all must come to terms with what we believe His word says.  Bless you!

[Bonky]

Butero, you said

Quote

So what if that means God is culpable?  He is God.  He can do anything he wants.  Who are we to accuse the creator of anything?  Even if we do, so what?  He doesn't have to give account to us for his actions. 

 

What you are describing is called Divine Command theory.   Unfortunately this kind of thinking validates all the Muslim terrorists.  They are merely doing what they think "God" is asking of them.   If you can't criticize "God" then it's quite possible the Muslims are acting morally correct.

I'd like to add that I find it confusing that theists want us to investigate their religion and it's beliefs in the hopes that we find the same truth they did.  This really can't be done w/o evaluating what the religion is saying and asking people to do.  Yet if we find the religion, the holy book or beliefs to be immoral or unappealing we are told who are we to judge.  You can't have it both ways, you can't say evaluate the claims of the Bible...but if you find them faulty in any way...who are you to make that judgment?  

Edited December 23, 2015 by Bonky

[enoob57]

The simplicity of the hermeneutic Gen 1:1 In the beginning - what beginning when God has not a begin? This is defined in the
Gen 2:1-2 all that God made and placing also the angelic host -> Ezk 28:15 angelic being defined as created
Eze 28:15
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV
so if one wishes to rest literally upon the Scripture 'from the day' would reference not before there was a day in existence and the 
would be Gen 1: 1-5 and also in the hermeneutic day 3 when Job stated angels present when stars were created... leaving only the
literal day one or two for their creation.  Now according to the hermeneutic of Scripture (literal) Gen 1:1 and to Gen 2:2 lies all that
God created and Gen 2:3
Ge 2:3
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
KJV
(anyone who placing sin in the created camp of God does so at the peril of God sanctifying sin)
Leaving the fall of satan sometime after the seventh day... why not during is supposition on my part but under Sovereign God
sanctifying Seventh Day >worship< of all that He created must still be in play.    Love, Steven

 

[Bonky]

Butero, I'm not trying to demonize your opinion.  I'm showing you what your opinion means if you're consistent.   If the Muslim God Allah is the creator, then beheading non-believers may be the moral thing to do.  Who are we to judge right?  The things you are saying to protect the Judeo Christian God also apply to all other Gods.