Morning star...

[Greenie]

Ok so im reading the word of GOD and doing some studying of a lesson my uncle has put together. Its a big 62 page study on the basics that every believer should know. (He knows that i recently rededicated my life back to God and thought it would be helpful) its got a lot of scripture references and one of them happens to be Isaiah 14, 9-21 so im reading and i clearly see it is talking about lucifer. Heres a question that came to my mind and want some help with...bear with me 

Niv. Isaiah 14 verse 12 says...

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

So in this verse satan is being called morning star...but in Revelation 22 verse 16 Jesus says

Niv. Revelation 22 verse 16

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright Morning Star.

So my question is how can satan be called morning star and Jesus be called morning star?  The only difference i see is that Jesus is called Bright Morning Star. Someone please clarify for me ....im sure im reading something out of context and i love how the members here put things in perspective

Thank you, looking forward to some responses 

Your brother in Christ,

Greenie

[Guest]

In Rev. 22:16 Jesus called Himself “the bright morning star” so that should have put an end to the discussion. The idea that morning star refers to Satan comes from some English translations of Isaiah 14:12, which say, “How you have fallen from heaven O morning star, son of the dawn.” The King James version uses the Latin word Lucifer (which means “light bearer”) instead of morning star, but even that is not an exact translation.

Isaiah 14:12-20 is clearly about Satan, so verse 12 would be better translated as “Shining one, son of the dawn”. The Hebrew word for “shining one” comes from a root that means to boast or be boastful. When you read the next two verses , you can see that Satan made five incredible boasts about what He intended to do.

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High” (Isaiah 14:13-14).

In this context you can see how well the title “shining one” applies. That was quite a boast.

Later, in 2 Cor. 11:14, Paul accused Satan of masquerading as an angel of light. This confirms that both Lucifer and shining one are appropriate titles for him. But in the Lord’s own words, He alone is the Bright Morning Star.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Rick_Parker said:

Later, in 2 Cor. 11:14, Paul accused Satan of masquerading as an angel of light. This confirms that both Lucifer and shining one are appropriate titles for him. But in the Lord’s own words, He alone is the Bright Morning Star.

Rick is correct in clarifying the mistranslation in Isa 14:12. Please note the correct meaning of Lucifer (a shining one):

Strong's Concordance 1966

helel: a shining one

Original Word: הֵילֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: helel
Phonetic Spelling: (hay-lale')
Short Definition: morning

[manuelf324]

In Isiah you have the 5 I wills which caused him to fall. Everything he wants to do Jesus already did. Why because he wants to be like Jesus that's why he comes as the antichrist which doesn't mean against its means pseudo Christ. 

Satan mimic God's Son in any way he can

[Ezra]

On 08/12/2015, 12:38:22, manuelf324 said:

In Isiah you have the 5 I wills which caused him to fall. Everything he wants to do Jesus already did. Why because he wants to be like Jesus that's why he comes as the antichrist which doesn't mean against its means pseudo Christ. 

Satan mimic God's Son in any way he can

"Anti" means BOTH against and in place of. This Man of Sin will claim to be the true Jewish Messiah (in place of Jesus of Nazareth).  He will also blaspheme God and Christ, as revealed in Daniel, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation. He will, in fact, claim to be God.  Interestingly enough, a leading Jewish rabbi has recently stated that he is expecting Messiah very soon.

[JohnD]

On 12/8/2015 at 6:52 PM, Greenie said:

Ok so im reading the word of GOD and doing some studying of a lesson my uncle has put together. Its a big 62 page study on the basics that every believer should know. (He knows that i recently rededicated my life back to God and thought it would be helpful) its got a lot of scripture references and one of them happens to be Isaiah 14, 9-21 so im reading and i clearly see it is talking about lucifer. Heres a question that came to my mind and want some help with...bear with me 

Niv. Isaiah 14 verse 12 says...

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

So in this verse satan is being called morning star...but in Revelation 22 verse 16 Jesus says

Niv. Revelation 22 verse 16

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright Morning Star.

So my question is how can satan be called morning star and Jesus be called morning star?  The only difference i see is that Jesus is called Bright Morning Star. Someone please clarify for me ....im sure im reading something out of context and i love how the members here put things in perspective

Thank you, looking forward to some responses 

Your brother in Christ,

Greenie

The answer is simple.

Until The Father created the body of Jesus, Lucifer was the first and greatest creation. Now Jesus has that distinction: Morning star.

God the Word (who became Jesus in the incarnation) is the Creator of all things created in the beginning (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24).

Later, God the Father created only the body of the Son (Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5, John 1:14).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

The answer is simple.

Until The Father created the body of Jesus, Lucifer was the first and greatest creation. Now Jesus has that distinction: Morning star.

God the Word (who became Jesus in the incarnation) is the Creator of all things created in the beginning (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24).

Later, God the Father created only the body of the Son (Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5, John 1:14).

 

 

 

 

 

 

In case anyone might be confused by saying God created the body of the Son,   Jesus is fully human as well as fully God.   He did not simply receive a body, He became fully human with a human nature as well.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ is not a created being. He is GOD. He made all things. All things were made for, through, and by Him. Most scholars believe that whenever GOD came to Earth during the OT, it was in the form of Christ. Christ has always been in His present form, while being born to Mary as an infant. But, He has always been been in Human form.

[other one]

I have trouble reconciling that with this:

Phil 2:5-7
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
NASB

 

 

[Guest]

I think that you are reading more into those verses than are there. GOD is three-in-one, I don't believe that they can be separated in the manner that you are intimating. The Bible tells us that They decided among Themselves (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) how They would solve the sin problem, not GOD deciding how to solve it by Himself at some point and then making part of Himself be a body.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomeit. (John 1:1-5) "The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:9-14)

JMHO.