Preterism and the OT...proof.

[MorningGlory]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Oh thank you, I forgot another aspect that seems typical of Preterists. They tend to play the martyr a lot.

    Pseudo martyrs are tedious.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

No, don't misquote me.  I said it was pretty arrogant to expect the rest of us to look up his sources.  Get your ducks in a row before you comment please.  Btw, I still don't see a crude comment; virgins are discussed all the time in Scripture. 

Get your ducks in a row. I did not misquote you, as I did not quote you. I was speaking of another poster

Geesh you people are a nasty nasty bunch.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Joline

[MorningGlory]

8 minutes ago, Joline said:

Get your ducks in a row. I did not misquote you, as I did not quote you. I was speaking of another poster Geesh you people are a nasty nasty bunch.

Then you didn't make this post?  The one where you sniped at my calling someone arrogant?  Am I seeing things?  Btw, you might make more friends here if you didn't persist in calling us a 'nasty, nasty bunch'. 

 

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Posted Sunday at 3:08 PM (edited) · Report post

On 12/13/2015, 3:00:01, MorningGlory said:

I've read through this thread and, for the life of me, I cannot find these alleged 'crude comments'.  Am I just missing them or ????  Btw, if there ARE crude comments you should report them with that little 'report post' button over each post.

Here is a crude comment for one IMO

"Is being a "partial Preterist" kind of like being a partial virgin? or a partial sinner?"

and calling people arrogant etc. simply because you disagree with their views of prophetic events is a bigger problem than having an erroneous belief in the first place. As for reporting, no I generally do not see the need for that. I usually like to try and discuss things with people first.

 

[Guest]

 

Here is what My comment concerning arrogant etc. was referring to....

Posted Saturday at 8:41 PM · Report post

This snippet in a post by John D

 

"The OP demonstrated mannerisms typical of Preterists. Arrogant, obnoxious, presuming everyone is ignorant or misled who do not immediately jump on the Preterism bandwagon."

As for making more friends, I am not the one being nasty, so I am not concerned about it..

I am done here with this....

Edited December 15, 2015 by Joline

[Sister]

On 8/12/2015 at 0:06 PM, completedbeliever1 said:

There is SO MUCH proof in the OT that saying things were not fulfilled, is like saying the titanic didnt sink. Let us reason together, and come to a logical conclusion.  It is obvious that Yashua, (Jesus) was the embodiment of the OT.  In the flesh.  But what I am saying is that every law, every thing that was in the OT not only points to Yashua, but was about the messiah.  Here is the proof.  The first day of the first month, the glory filled the tabernacle after Moses finished building it.  2000 years later, on the same day, first day of the first month, Yashua was baptized, and he was filled with the spirit of the Almighty.  Then, he went into the wilderness for 40 days, until he revealed himself.  The day he started his ministry, was the 14th day of the second month.  That was the same day the manna started in the OT.  Then there is the thing about the Amalekites.  That was to show that there was going to be "war with the fleshly man/carnal man", from generation to generation.  Before this, the baptism, which is the death, burial, and resurrection. That is what baptism is, showing that we have died to the old man, and were buried with Yashua, and rose with him into his resurrection.  A new man.  The awesome thing that YAH did, was give us a timeline for EVERYTHING the messiah would do.  From the time he was baptized, until the time Titus came to destroy the city, and burn the temple.  Exodus 12 is the passover.  Chapter 13, is the death, 14 is the burial, and 15 is the resurrection.  16 is Miriam, (Mary) praising the death of the rider and his horse.  This same thing happened thousands of years later when Mary rejoiced.  Remember this when you read revelation next time... Then you read all the way to Joshua when he takes over Jericho, and there you see Titus entering the picture exactly 40 years after the passover.  The EXACT same thing happened in Egypt to Joshua entering Jericho.  EVERYTHING, including the  1000 years was fulfilled...the proof of the 1000 years is right after Joshua died, and read what happens for the next thousand years with Israel in the OT.  Then read history to see what happened in church history, for the first thousand years...It is AMAZING!  

Completedbeliever1

Greetings.

What do you make of these scriptures?

 

 Micah 4:1   But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

  Micah 4:2   And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

  Micah 4:3   And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

  Micah 4:4   But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

  Micah 4:5   For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

  Micah 4:6   In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;

  Micah 4:7   And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

  Micah 4:8   And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
 

[completedbeliever1]

On 12/14/2015 at 11:31 PM, MorningGlory said:

If you quote Scripture, please post chapter and verse.  If you post historical allusions, please post the sources.  It's what we all do so what's the big deal?

Got it.

[completedbeliever1]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

Completedbeliever1

Greetings.

What do you make of these scriptures?

 

 Micah 4:1   But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

  Micah 4:2   And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

  Micah 4:3   And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

  Micah 4:4   But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

  Micah 4:5   For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

  Micah 4:6   In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;

  Micah 4:7   And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

  Micah 4:8   And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
 

All of this is about Yashua. He IS the house of YAH. He is the one talked about here.  I love the fact that Isaiah talks about Yashua in chapter 53, but Jews cant see it.  I also love it that this passage does the same thing.

[Sister]

Completedbeliever1

Yes Isaiah 53 is great proof that that their Messiah came and all this was fulfilled, but there is no mention of the word Messiah, or who this man is? therefore they cannot make the connection.

 Isaiah 53:3   He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

 Isaiah 53:4   Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

 Isaiah 53:5   But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
 

 Isaiah 53:7   He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

  Isaiah 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

  Isaiah 53:9   And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

  Isaiah 53:10   Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
 

Now Micah 4, is speaking about something also, we have to make the connection and discern also. Micah 4 is speaking of something that has not been fulfilled yet, never throughout all history.  Please take another look at it brother.

Micah 4:3   And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

When Jesus the Christ came he said;

John 12:47   And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

This verse in John 12:47 agrees with Isaiah 53, for he came to bear the light, not to judge.  There's a difference.

In Micah 4, he shall judge the nations, neither shall the nations learn war any more.  This obviously has not been fulfilled because wars are still happening today, so it is speaking of a time to come.  A time of peace amongst all the nations.  What time would this be speaking of?

These are the facts to consider;

There are still nations about.

Weapons of war turned into tools for preparing/catching food.

Nation shall not lift up a sword against nation.

Neither shall they learn war anymore (the nations)

[completedbeliever1]

On 12/14/2015 at 8:52 PM, JohnD said:

 

Preterism, eschatological alternative or detrimental heresy

Out of the starting gate Preterism has one off balance with their Herbert W. Armstrong-esque tactic of ridiculous acclaim, “Either Jesus came again in the lifetime of the Apostles or he was a liar and Christianity is a fraud.”

Please.

This is a shock tactic used when the one(s) doing the shocking either have a weak argument or something to hide. Reminiscent of the old time preacher’s notes that read in the margin “pound pulpit here; argument weak.”

As with all errant doctrines, Preterism takes its interpretation of selected verses and reinterprets the rest of the entire Bible through that meager interpretation. And that simply is not good hermeneutical interpretation.  The dispensationalist, on the other hand, not only has its interpretation of those same selected verses, but it also bears in mind what the rest of the Bible says in its interpretation of them. Which is nothing less than sound hermeneutical interpretation.

The Bible is divinely engineered to prevent people from taking a piece of it and running amok with it theologically. One must take the context of the Bible itself (even in prophetic passages there is an over all context of the Bible that must be considered to properly interpret the verses). In other words, we cannot impose upon the Bible what we think it says or what we want it to mean. The Bible is the Word of God and it must be the final authority.

Anything else is a waste.

 

On to the subject at hand.

Time tables

When you were a small child and that hallowed day of presents getting (never mind gift swapping) December 25^th drew near, if you were like the rest of us you pestered your parents relentlessly about how much time was it to Christmas? For the sake of their sanity and considering a child’s concept of time, “Soon,” (meaning soon enough) was the typical response.

The perceptive parent realizes the child is virtually on an entirely different time table, and a number of days to us is like a number of years to them. A day can seem a month long to a small child.  So even in the parent’s use of the word soon the child has an expectant hope that it means soon according to their time table. 

The Bible has several different time tables.

In fact, if it were not for the biblical memorial time table of a seven day week (commemorating the week of creation) man could not begin to answer the question “why a seven day week?” Why not a ten day week? Or a five day week? The only explanation is the Bible establishes the seven day week time table.

The Bible does something peculiar in setting up the time table of a year consisting of twelve 30-day months. Some scientists believe this was due to the Earth originally being on a 360-day revolution around the sun. The Hebrew calendar reflects the biblical annual time table with a unique method of adding a month every Hebrew leap year. The Gregorian Calendar modifies the same basic time table by spreading the variances throughout the months of the year with only one additional day every four years to leap into proper chronological position.  

The Bible also set up various time tables such as:

The 100-year generation (Genesis 15:16)

The Jubilee cycle (Leviticus 25:10-54)

The Jewish decade (Daniel 9:24)

The prophetic Messianic count down (Daniel 9:24-26)

The Day according to God (2 Peter 3:8)

Creation started in 3930, and will end in 2068.  The 6th day started in 1066-68 A.D. and will end in 2068.  Earth has 6000 years to work, and will rest for 1 thousand years. I am a completed believer, which means I understand what preterists are saying, but they do not understand the OT well enough to PROVE their stance.  The proof is in the OT timeline, and what YAHVAH has shown through time in types, symbols, patterns and shadows.  We are entering times that will bring the USA to a shell of what it once was, and for the next 50 years we have a chance to forgive our debtors and remember the prayer of YAH that Yashua gave us in the NT.   

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

On December 15, 2015 at 10:07 PM, Joline said:

 

Here is what My comment concerning arrogant etc. was referring to....

Posted Saturday at 8:41 PM · Report post

This snippet in a post by John D

 

"The OP demonstrated mannerisms typical of Preterists. Arrogant, obnoxious, presuming everyone is ignorant or misled who do not immediately jump on the Preterism bandwagon."

As for making more friends, I am not the one being nasty, so I am not concerned about it..

I am done here with this....

Wow, just saw this thread and now it's done. God bless all of you !