The Time of Testing

[WilliamL]

9 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The multitude in Rev 7 are those who were martyred for refusing to worship the beast, not the sum total of the first resurrection.

You are adding the word "martyred" to the Word. Whereas the Word actually says, "these are the ones coming out of the Great Tribulation, and washed their robes, and made them white..." 7:14 They are "a Great Multitude which no man can number..." 7:9 Therefore they must be much more than two hundred million, the number used in 9:17. They are taken before the heavenly Throne just prior to the beginning of the Wrath of God.

Whereas the saints martyred at the 5th Seal are 'given white robes." These are unnumbered, and need not wash their robes to make them white. And whereas the saints martyred by the Beast are also unnumbered, and these ones are killed long after the 6th Seal has been opened; even well after the beginning of the period of the Trumpets, after the Wrath of God has begun. These latter martyred ones are those resurrected after Armageddon, during the Millennium. 20:4

In short, what you try to impose on Revelation is a mixing up of the order of events.

[Last Daze]

6 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

In short, what you try to impose on Revelation is a mixing up of the order of events.

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.  It'll all work out the way it is supposed to.

[WilliamL]

And one more time: the pattern of all End Time events was laid down in the Hebrew roots of the Old Testament. When one understands the pattern laid down in the First Descent and Shofar of God upon Sinai, one will understand the pattern to come in the Last Descent and shofar of God upon Mount Zion.

But if one tries to understand the pattern to come by looking at all of the tree-branches of the New Testament, instead of looking to their seed-born root, one will only be confused as to order and timing. The secret of the seed is first revealed in the root: there its basic plan is most clearly seen.

[rollinTHUNDER]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

The period of time between the 2nd and 3rd woe.

• Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”  And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.  Revelation 16:15-16

As the armies gather.

I guess we're comparing apples and oranges here.  I just don't see a test in either of those verses.  I see where the first verse above is alluding to the rapture, which could be those who are kept from the hour of testing.  But the second one is referring to the judgment of the nations, and all that are gathered will be destroyed.  I see no time of testing, only judgment. 

Oh well, I guess its time to move along.

 

 

Cheers

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, rollinTHUNDER said:

I guess we're comparing apples and oranges here.  I just don't see a test in either of those verses.  I see where the first verse above is alluding to the rapture, which could be those who are kept from the hour of testing.  But the second one is referring to the judgment of the nations, and all that are gathered will be destroyed.  I see no time of testing, only judgment. 

Oh well, I guess its time to move along.

They're consecutive verses.  Jesus' coming like a thief is after the armies gather.  His exhortation is there for a reason.  I wouldn't just dismiss it in an off-hand way.

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The period of time between the 2nd and 3rd woe.

• Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”  And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.  Revelation 16:15-16

As the armies gather.

Nah, it's just a verse that tells us that Yeshua` will steal the clothes from the men who would gather in Har-Megiddow when they are asleep. That way, they will fight "shirts" against the "skins."

[rollinTHUNDER]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

They're consecutive verses.  Jesus' coming like a thief is after the armies gather.  His exhortation is there for a reason.  I wouldn't just dismiss it in an off-hand way.

That's one way to interpret it, but I certainly wouldn't try to gauge the time between the rapture and the second coming by it.  How long would it take for all nations to move their armies to Jerusalem?  Again, we're talking days.  Feast of trumpets, Day of Atonement and feast of Tabernacles seem to fit nicely.  I fail to see how this relates to the time of testing.

 

 

Cheers

[MorningGlory]

On 1/17/2016 at 8:52 AM, Last Daze said:

I admire your often requests for people to back up what they say with scripture so as to reduce the amount of speculation in these discussions.  So, I find it odd that you not only give a free pass to the part in red but also absolutely agree with it.  I have yet to see any scriptures that directly support it.  I hear a lot of human reasoning that's designed to arrive at a desired outcome but nothing scriptural.

The only support Ezra gives for the Great Tribulation being a time of God's judgment and wrath and not for the church is to shout it in ALL CAPS.  So, I'm hoping that you can provide the scriptures that link the Great Tribulation to God's judgment and wrath.  If you can't then why do you absolutely agree with it?

I think it's kind of odd to ask ME to provide Scripture to support someone else's comments, Daze.  But, whatever, here's Rev. 6.  I don't understand why you need someone to link the Tribulation to God's wrath.....I mean, who else is bringing all that to bear???

 

6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

³ And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

⁴ And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

⁵ And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

⁶ And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

⁷ And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

[Last Daze]

53 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

I don't understand why you need someone to link the Tribulation to God's wrath.....I mean, who else is bringing all that to bear???

Oh, nevermind.  Have a great life.

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Oh, nevermind.  Have a great life.

lol