Who makes sinners into saints?

[Ezra]

3 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Why?

Canonization is exactly that - recognizing these people were indeed saints.

In which case the Pope should be canonizing every born-again believer. But the Catholic New Advent Enclycopedia starts off with:

According to some writers the origin of beatification and canonization in the Catholic Church is to be traced back to the ancient pagan apotheosis. 

[thereselittleflower]

36 minutes ago, Ezra said:

In which case the Pope should be canonizing every born-again believer.

Do you know who every born again believer is?

From what you said here, it sounds like you don't.

 

23 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

If someone says and lives like they put their trust in Jesus, they may be brothers in/with ekklesia.

 

    emphasis mine

If you don't know why should the Pope know?

 

 

Quote

But the Catholic New Advent Enclycopedia starts off with:

According to some writers the origin of beatification and canonization in the Catholic Church is to be traced back to the ancient pagan apotheosis. 

 

I would also be careful of promoting prooftexting as evidence of fact.  The very next sentence of YOUR source above says this:

• In his classic work on the subject (De Servorum Dei Beatificatione et Beatorum Canonizatione) Benedict XIV examines and at the very outset refutes this view. He shows so well the substantial differences between them that no right-thinking person need henceforth confound the two institutions or derive one from the other. 
   

[manuelf324]

First off I'm not a comment warrior so I'm not going back and forth 

No one worships man? Really?  tell you what I bought a book Henry Morris Long War Against God  who was saved and talks about humanism. We obviously don't read the Bible anymore to say that man doesn't worship himself. I email anyone who wants that book. He has KJV Scriptures all over his book so it's safe it's not a new age book like the shack.  GOD bless 

[thereselittleflower]

5 minutes ago, manuelf324 said:

First off I'm not a comment warrior so I'm not going back and forth 

No one worships man? Really?  tell you what I bought a book Henry Morris Long War Against God  who was saved and talks about humanism. We obviously don't read the Bible anymore to say that man doesn't worship himself. I email anyone who wants that book. He has KJV Scriptures all over his book so it's safe it's not a new age book like the shack.  GOD bless 

 

Obviously my words were said in a particular context manuel.  If you want to apply them so broadly, you will be mistaken in your understanding of what I said.

Humanism is not the context of this thread.

In fact, humanism wasn't the context of your point which was what my words were responding to:

      

2 hours ago, manuelf324 said:

Actually if you actually read what I said instead of skimming through it you would know I agree with you fully

The only mistake I made  is canonization is after death your correct . My point is those who worshipped man(canonized by man)  are in hell because they rejected Christ I  confused canonization with Catholic priesthood. All Catholic priests believe they can be Christ in the flesh just like the Pope believes he is Christ. 

It's in their catechism  I apologize for the confusion 

God bless 

 

 

 

 

 

emphasis mine.

As far as I know, humanists don't canonize anyone.

So all you did here was deflect onto an entirely different subject after I corrected you.

 

 

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

Why?

Canonization is exactly that - recognizing these people were indeed saints.

Since only God knows the hearts of individuals, canonization is another abomination from the Catholic church.  Only God knows who has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and there is not a shred of biblical evidence that 3 miracles = 1 saint.

[thereselittleflower]

Just now, Ezra said:

Since only God knows the hearts of individuals, canonization is another abomination from the Catholic church.  Only God knows who has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and there is not a shred of biblical evidence that 3 miracles = 1 saint.

So are you saying no one can know if you are a saint?

 

 

 

[1to3]

17 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

So are you saying no one can know if you are a saint?

 

 

 

I know this question is not directed to me, but reading this, I would conclude, that really no man/woman/human, may ever know until we are back with the Lord who are true saints and who are not.

And I don't mean to point only to the Catholic church and its members, but since we are talking about Catholic policies, I would say, until the recent (within the past 50 years and over even past centuries) unveiling of the popes and priests and dare I even include women nuns and other deemed good  people in the picture,  has proven that many who claimed piety or where judged as thus, where in fact libel to some very serious offenses.

 

There is are a few passages in the Bible that say trust no man but God alone:

Psalm 118:8

8It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man. 9It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in princes.…

 

Psalm 146: 3

2I will praise the LORD while I live; I will sing praises to my God while I have my being

3Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.…

 

Jeremiah 17:5

…4And you will, even of yourself, let go of your inheritance That I gave you; And I will make you serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger Which will burn forever. 5Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. 6"For he will be like a bush in the desert And will not see when prosperity comes, But will live in stony wastes in the wilderness, A land of salt without inhabitant.…

 

also there is another passage that says , all are we like filthily rags,

Isaiah 64:6

5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned, We continued in them a long time; And shall we be saved? 6For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. 7There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.

 

and Christ Jesus living as a human said: why call me good, only My Father in heaven is good.

Matthew 19: 17

Christ Jesus said Why do you call Me good?

No one is good but One, that is God, but is you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'

 

To me its quite clear, praying to dead people, because we judge them good, is truly going the wrong way.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Ito3

 

Isn't Jesus God?

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Little Flower

    Yes,of course Jesus IS God,,,,,,,,Hfe came as a man,,,,,yet fully human/fully God,,,,,,Jesus was not talking about His Diety,that is not the context of the Scripture verse,,,,,,,,I believe(of course 1 to 3 can answer for herself-lol)that our Sister was just trying to show through her Scripture reference ,exactly what she said,,,,,

Quote

To me its quite clear, praying to dead people, because we judge them good, is truly going the wrong way.                                                posted by 1 to 3

Dead people,living people,comatose people & even angels are not the ones we are supposed to worship,pray to,give glory to or revere as only God is Worthy ,,,,,,,for the RCC ,they are not regarding "saints" in the same way the Bible refers to "us",,,,,,,, They are setting these people apart as above anyone else,,,,,,,,accrediting them(also giving glory,honor,praise & worship)with 3 miracles,,,,,,,,Miracles are performed by God ,yes indeed He can work M iracles through people if He chooses to but the glory belongs to Him Alone,,,,,,,,this is the problem with "canonization" angd with the adoration of the people they "deem"saints,,,,,,,,,The RCC encourages people to p ray to Mary(who is dead),pray to (who they have given the status of)"saints" and also angels,,,,,,,,This is everything that goes against the Word of God,,,,,,,,,,

Again,& I think it is worth repeating,,,,,I do not like to categorize "Catholics" because every person is an individual & I cannot know their heart or their individual beliefs ,,,,I am only stating the teachings of the RCC,it can ll be found in their missiles,which (in my experienced) they encourage reading rather than the Bible,,,,,or the Catholic Holy Bible (which includes 7 more books,,,,,,73 in all)This topic is not about the RCC so I will end this here,,,,,

This Topic is about "Who makes sinners into saints?"I think we have all agreed that Jesus is the Way,the Truth & the Life,,,,only through our Faith in Him do we receive the forgiveness of sins,Gods Grace & there's the answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,In my opinion this thread has run its course,to God be the Glory!

                                                                                                                       With Love-in Christ,Kwik

[gdemoss]

A saint is someone who is set apart for God.  Closely related words are sane, sanity, sanitation for sainthood is about cleanliness of the spirit in human sinful flesh where the spirit controls the flesh. 

In my flesh dwells no good thing and as long as I am in my flesh doing the works of the flesh I am in sin which is in my flesh but if I walk in the spirit rather than the flesh, the Holy Spirit, then my works are of love, joy and peace.  

No man is a saint in the flesh but it spirit.  Cleanliness comes from renouncing the flesh and confessing the works thereof as the evil they are.  Adultries, fornications, envyings, debate, deceit and the like.  In my flesh I wrestle with the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life but in the Spirit I find relief from all these.

How did I come to understand these things?  They were revealed to me in the scriptures.  I was, am and continue to be washed in the water of the word but the Word is in me keeping me cleansed as I go for when I get all full of myself and begin to think I am something when I am nothing the Word in me ever reminds me that I am nothing without God.

Am I a saint and who made me that way?  There is but one potter who has determined to finish the work he has begun in me.  I trust in him.