How can we say Tribulation has not started ?

[Serving]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

I repeat, you will not find the word "church" or "churches" (Greek ekklesia) between Rev 6 and 18 (which describe all the final judgments of God). Indeed, between Rev 4 and 21.  Please take out your concordances and verify.  Then ask yourself "How is this possible, and why was it necessary?"

However, you will find saints in Heaven, which is the whole point of bringing this out. While the unbelieving and the ungodly are on earth, the majority of saints (excepting the Tribulation saints) are in Heaven. That answers the question about who goes through the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation.

How can the church be taken to heaven before the actual day of the 2nd coming?

If one is taken to heaven then one has been REWARDED .. but .. it is written that Christ COMES with His REWARD at His 2nd coming ..

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Q : How can the church be in heaven BEFORE the REWARD is even GIVEN?

Q : Who then has REWARDED them before Christ could?

And just to head any questions off at the pass .. lets get this REWARD business certified ..

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

So the REWARD happens AT his COMING and NOT before it according to Matthew .. yet somehow this "church" in heaven has managed to REWARD itself before Christ had a chance to do so !! Meaning they judged themselves worthy .. somebody must have forgotten to tell Christ of this .. how embarrassing.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

John records WHEN the saints (church) gets their REWARD too .. oh look, it so happens that the WHOLE BODY gets their REWARD at the SAME TIME (almost like a HARVEST hmm) .. meaning no  'tribulation SAINTS' can possibly be left behind whilst another group apparently takes the gold seats .. perhaps somebody needs to release another bible and re-word that verse real quick.

And what ELSE did Christ say?

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So He comes on a SET DAY and HOUR when the resurrection obviously occurs since He COMES with His REWARD ..

Q : Wouldn't Christ first need to APPEAR (2nd coming) before it can be said that He CAME?

I mean, even Martha who served tables (to the 'scholars' shame) understood that the resurrection of the SAINTS (church) occurs on one set LITERAL DAY

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

And look, on that SAME DAY we are told that EVERY ONE who EVER believed on Him will be RAISED UP too .. that means every generation SINCE Christ will be raised from their graves on that very literal LAST DAY itself

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So WHAT "church" is it that is being resurrected ("raptured") even before EVERY OTHER SAINT in Christ who has ever lived gets their turn let alone before the so called "left behind tribulation saints"?

And just to repeat for clarification :

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

It won't take Jesus 3 years or 10 years to appear where every eye will see Him, nor will it take a month or a week .. because it is clear it only takes :

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So THAT DAY is obviously a LITERAL 24 hour day and not some lame excuse that it really means a period of time .. Christ will appear SUDDENLY within that LITERAL DAY and HOUR as is written and I BELIEVE Him and not this John Darby fellow who thought up the "rapture" in the 1800's ..

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

That DAY.

ANYBODY who believed on Christ in spirit & truth from EVERY GENERATION will be RAISED TOGETHER on ONE LITERAL DAY which is called the FIRST resurrection .. it is not called rapture which is an easily abused time frame, but the RESURRECTION which is EXCLUSIVE and DEFINED .. which DAY is the very SAME DAY AND HOUR AS THIS :

Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

There are so many declarations about a set DAY of resurrection occurring on the SAME LITERAL DAY of wrath (after the build up of trumps & vials) that there just isn't any evidence of this "special rapture" for this "gold card" precious group being whisked away before the rest of their brethren .. there just isn't.

 

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, Serving said:

LOL .. I never knew this until now that some believe that the "A-team church" will be "raptured" but the "B-team church", (so aptly put), is not ??

So the body of Christ is divided then I take it ??

Hmm .. but seriously,

The obvious question now becomes this .. HOW are the "A-team" and the "B-teams" sorted?

Since the "B-team" are the strong ones who DIE for Christ, then by default wouldn't the "A-team" be the lesser brethren perhaps? 

Yes .. that must be it .. LOL ..

Yeah, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  I still haven't heard a scripturally based explanation of where these supposed "tribulation saints" come from after a pretrib rapture.  All I hear is human reasoning that has conjured up some "great revival".

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Yeah, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  I still haven't heard a scripturally based explanation of where these supposed "tribulation saints" come from after a pretrib rapture.  All I hear is human reasoning that has conjured up some "great revival".

These "tribulations saints" will be you.  We on the other hand will be in the Fathers House according to John 14:1-4.

Now David new he could defeat Goliath because he had already fought the Lion and the Bear.  Don't some of you think you should fight the lion and the bear before you jump into this time of Great Distress (Goliath).  I think most of you are ill prepared for what will be coming.  Starvation diets, 12 or more hours a day of hard labor, maybe a bath or shower once a month, do not want to waste the water.  If you need to go to the bathroom, raise your right hand; get back to work you lazy person.  Just give me a little water; Not until you do more work.  These feet restraints are hurting me; Quiet, or I will bind your hands and arms also.  And on, and on, and on.  For this is what you will receive.  But praise God, for I know you can endure all this and more.  You all, better start your prep work.  Bible Study will not prep you for extremely hard labor.  Better work up your calluses.  You will stink just as bad as the person next to you.  Yet your wife and or daughters will be part of a Brothel.  Your young teen aged boys will be abused by Gays.  And all this because you want to go into Captivity.  Will they be prepared?  Will you be prepared?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

32 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

These "tribulations saints" will be you.  We on the other hand will be in the Fathers House according to John 14:1-4.

Now David new he could defeat Goliath because he had already fought the Lion and the Bear.  Don't some of you think you should fight the lion and the bear before you jump into this time of Great Distress (Goliath).  I think most of you are ill prepared for what will be coming.  Starvation diets, 12 or more hours a day of hard labor, maybe a bath or shower once a month, do not want to waste the water.  If you need to go to the bathroom, raise your right hand; get back to work you lazy person.  Just give me a little water; Not until you do more work.  These feet restraints are hurting me; Quiet, or I will bind your hands and arms also.  And on, and on, and on.  For this is what you will receive.  But praise God, for I know you can endure all this and more.  You all, better start your prep work.  Bible Study will not prep you for extremely hard labor.  Better work up your calluses.  You will stink just as bad as the person next to you.  Yet your wife and or daughters will be part of a Brothel.  Your young teen aged boys will be abused by Gays.  And all this because you want to go into Captivity.  Will they be prepared?  Will you be prepared?

In Christ

Montana Marv

I hate to break it to you but prophecy will not be fulfilled according to the will of man, but the will of God.  You would do well to stick with what scripture says and prepare for that.

Again, if the pretrib rapture happens and all believers are removed from earth, where do these "tribulation saints" come from?  Please use scripture instead of fear to support your answer.  I'm not persuaded by your rhetoric.

[SINNERSAVED]

39 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

These "tribulations saints" will be you.  We on the other hand will be in the Fathers House according to John 14:1-4.

Now David new he could defeat Goliath because he had already fought the Lion and the Bear.  Don't some of you think you should fight the lion and the bear before you jump into this time of Great Distress (Goliath).  I think most of you are ill prepared for what will be coming.  Starvation diets, 12 or more hours a day of hard labor, maybe a bath or shower once a month, do not want to waste the water.  If you need to go to the bathroom, raise your right hand; get back to work you lazy person.  Just give me a little water; Not until you do more work.  These feet restraints are hurting me; Quiet, or I will bind your hands and arms also.  And on, and on, and on.  For this is what you will receive.  But praise God, for I know you can endure all this and more.  You all, better start your prep work.  Bible Study will not prep you for extremely hard labor.  Better work up your calluses.  You will stink just as bad as the person next to you.  Yet your wife and or daughters will be part of a Brothel.  Your young teen aged boys will be abused by Gays.  And all this because you want to go into Captivity.  Will they be prepared?  Will you be prepared?

In Christ

Montana Marv

why are you speaking evil and not of what scripture says, for why are you wishing bad to others, is this what Gods love is about, ? no God forbid, this is not of God and your fantasy and ideas are not only rude, but are not inline of brotherly love,

 I would normally not respond to your posts at all if I can help, but its seems you are in fear, for don't you know that those in the grace of God do not fear even death , for the last breath you take here on earth , will send you to the father God, and when He decides its time we face a judgement or a grace, so why are you being hateful to others this is not good, I think everyone can see this,

Jesus is the way , and the truth and the life, there is no other way , but we must be doer of the word not just hearers, let us praise the God of the heavens for the gift of grace has been given to all those that confess and believe,

if you believe you will not fear , and if we have hope which is still not seen it is hope that will come about for those that wait,

upon the lord, ,for you will be hated and persecuted for the word and for the name of Jesus , and endure always and be ready for until death may have to be part, of the endurance to save  a soul.

[Ezra]

19 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

 so would you say Ezra , that the churches in revelation have become the saints and individuals spirit filled , the true churches scattered through out the world ?

SS,

The saints are those who have been saved by grace since Abel, and are children of God. The churches in Revelation may have had a mixture of wheat and tares, as will all the churches in the world.

[Ezra]

30 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Again, if the pretrib rapture happens and all believers are removed from earth, where do these "tribulation saints" come from?  

Once the Church is raptured, God send's two prophets to preach to the world (Rev 11:3-12), and He also sends a holy angel with "the everlasting Gospel" (Rev 14:6,7). Therefore there will be some who will believe even after the Church is in Heaven. They will refuse to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev 12:11; 14:12; 20:4).  These are the Tribulation saints who become martyrs and are then resurrected.  If the whole Church would go through the Tribulation, then the whole Church would be beheaded. But that is not what Scripture reveals.

[Guest Thallasa]

20 hours ago, Littlelambseativy said:

Then. You know who the anti-Christ is and where he is , what the one world religion is and that no one can worship but that one world religion and you know who the leader of the world as he tells us what to do and when. You also have not been able to purchase anything in the stores to eat or wear because you have no mark of the beast and are I hiding. Am I correct?? There is no freedom anywhere in the world?

This is not even close to what the tribulation will be like for EVERYONE who does not toe the line. No escape, no food, no freedom,no heat in winter or air conditioning in the summer, no church for you to enter, no money because you need the mark.

 

20 hours ago, Serving said:

The body of Christ faced and still faces tribulation on a daily basis
   
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Even suffering unto death

Acts 26:9-10 (Paul speaking)

9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

And if we die for His Names sake, we die with a guarantee

Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Remembering that not all tribulation leads to death, tribulation can also act as a positive means

Romans 5:1-5

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

But sadly, not everybody is able to see the purifying role that tribulation works through us for His Name

Matthew 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
 
Nevertheless the Lord has provided for us a shelter even when we are being besieged with troubles and persecutions

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So some tribulations lead to death, yet most tribulations worketh unto hope, other tribulations to condemnation (those offended in His Name) of which tribulations have been with us since Christ, who, as you know, Himself suffered tribulation.

But those tribulations are not to be confused with the set aside and great tribulation which is coming, and like a storm shall this great tribulation hit us all together, and all at once

Revelation 13:15-16

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

But as already mentioned

Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Which is why we see this

Revelation 7:14-15

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Who are these

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So this is the great tribulation we are awaiting, this set aside day which is coming upon all the world and all at once like a great storm of fear and anguish and blood .. where every single person on this planet must make a choice .. for it is a test .. it is a sifting .. and it will be on a level never before seen on planet earth where every person and at the same time must choose or face tribulation unto DEATH and GLOBALLY at that.

 

 

On ‎06‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 7:06 PM, Littlelambseativy said:

People have been killed for their faith since Cain and Able. What about the Jews who were killed by the Romans, or the Christians in colosseum eaten by lions or gladiators making sport of them? What of the persecutions since then? It is not new Jesus said men would be persecuted for the faith. But, we are not in the Tribulation yet. There is not a one world religion, a senior ne world government, an ant-Christ all that may be in the beginning phases but certainly not here yet...because we are still here.

Seven years is a very long time in history . The second world war killed 60 million people, and was over and done with in less than five years . There were warning signs and people who could see them were ignored at best, and 'destroyed ' at worst  . The English prime minister Chamberlain  went to meet with Hitler, and said that he was a peaceful man  there was nothing to worry about .

And this was before , we had the atomic bomb .

[Montana Marv]

45 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

why are you speaking evil and not of what scripture says, for why are you wishing bad to others, is this what Gods love is about, ? no God forbid, this is not of God and your fantasy and ideas are not only rude, but are not inline of brotherly love,

 I would normally not respond to your posts at all if I can help, but its seems you are in fear, for don't you know that those in the grace of God do not fear even death , for the last breath you take here on earth , will send you to the father God, and when He decides its time we face a judgement or a grace, so why are you being hateful to others this is not good, I think everyone can see this,

Jesus is the way , and the truth and the life, there is no other way , but we must be doer of the word not just hearers, let us praise the God of the heavens for the gift of grace has been given to all those that confess and believe,

if you believe you will not fear , and if we have hope which is still not seen it is hope that will come about for those that wait,

upon the lord, ,for you will be hated and persecuted for the word and for the name of Jesus , and endure always and be ready for until death may have to be part, of the endurance to save  a soul.

But this is what happens when people are sent into Captivity.  If old, medically unfit (believer or non believer); one is of no use. Behead them.  Otherwise expect the worse, because that is what happens during captivity.  For this is what you long for.  Great distress is what it says: Great Distress, and you will experience it.  I don't think you are capable of going through such a time, is your family prepared.  They will take your wife and children away from you.  You will only have the clothes you are wearing, nothing more.  Think about the Jews (Gods chosen people)  in Germany during WWII.  How were they treated?  And this time of Great Distress will be much, much worse.  And you want to go through this time. and to be proven worthy.  One more feather in your hat.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest Thallasa]

31 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Once the Church is raptured, God send's two prophets to preach to the world (Rev 11:3-12), and He also sends a holy angel with "the everlasting Gospel" (Rev 14:6,7). Therefore there will be some who will believe even after the Church is in Heaven. They will refuse to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev 12:11; 14:12; 20:4).  These are the Tribulation saints who become martyrs and are then resurrected.  If the whole Church would go through the Tribulation, then the whole Church would be beheaded. But that is not what Scripture reveals.

The bible does not speak of a Rapture ,but Jesus tells us at the time of the Harvest there  will be  a seperation of the tares and the wheat , Matthew 13 :24 . I believe this is in operation now , as we are bombarded by false ideas , from  Darwinian evolution ,to  false gender ideas to ssm .etc.  We are being 'tested'  to see if we are guided by the Holy Spirit to 'see ' the truth, or give in under pressure . This is part of the 'tribulation' ,and must be resisted , as all these things are part of are the 'mark of the beast ' on our souls, if we accept them . If we give in it will be easy to control us ,but in the spirit of the Lord , we will be able to resist .

Only my humble opinion .