FINDING COMMON GROUND IN DANIEL

[Serving]

6 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

Yes ch. 7 I believe tells us of recent past great powers who are still here today.

But ch. 8 `ram & goat,` as we are told in God`s word are the Medes & Persians, & Greece. They are past World Rulers (not just super powers). We need to remember that Ch. 8 starts a whole different section in relation to Israel. These world Rulers M & P & Greece fought in the Middle East & when God jumps to the appointed time of the end (now) then that is where the Global leader will come from - the Middle East, who will desecrate the sanctuary.

 

Now as to your next question - Who are these great super powers of today? Do you want to have a try? And I appreciate that you are trying to understand my view before you comment on it.

Marilyn.

 

Thanks for your patience there Marilyn, I always find you a pleasure to chat with btw .. buuuut .. you're not going to like my reply to our established definitions I'm afraid, thou charming sister of mine .. so maybe you should just tell me before I 'annoy / frustrate you' with my answer .. orrrrrr .. do you just want me to get it out of the way first so you can say, "I'm not telling now" !! LOL

     

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

Oh you are so encouraging. I`m also glad to chat with a `gentlemanly` Ozzie. I do not mind if you disagree. I have studied the `historic` view of Dan. ch. 7 so am quite ready to discuss it with others. I realise that not many people have heard of the contemporary view so that is why I keep in there. When I first landed on this forum, (2 years ago) I started off with the contemporary view, but maybe it`s time to review it. So I may start a thread on it soon.

Meanwhile..... the world calls the first 3 Super Powers - part of the big four, or the quartet of power.

1. Great Britain & America. (always work together)

2. Russia.

3. European Union.

4. Islam.

 

Now have you ever thought what their emblems are?

1. Gt. Britain (Lion) America (Eagle)

2. Russia. (Bear)

3. EU. (Leopard)

4. Islam. (terrifying)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

[Serving]

15 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

Oh you are so encouraging. I`m also glad to chat with a `gentlemanly` Ozzie. I do not mind if you disagree. I have studied the `historic` view of Dan. ch. 7 so am quite ready to discuss it with others. I realise that not many people have heard of the contemporary view so that is why I keep in there. When I first landed on this forum, (2 years ago) I started off with the contemporary view, but maybe it`s time to review it. So I may start a thread on it soon.

Meanwhile..... the world calls the first 3 Super Powers - part of the big four, or the quartet of power.

1. Great Britain & America. (always work together)

2. Russia.

3. European Union.

4. Islam.

 

Now have you ever thought what their emblems are?

1. Gt. Britain (Lion) America (Eagle)

2. Russia. (Bear)

3. EU. (Leopard)

4. Islam. (terrifying)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

That's an interesting interpretation .. can't say I've ever heard that one before M .. you might even say the same about the interpretation I hold .. possibly.

And what I am about to say connects both chapters, 7 & 8, as speaking of the same thing with chapter 8 adding extra information to confirm chapter 7's interpretation.

And this is the key :

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

So the 4 beasts are not representing the empires, but specific kings .. which interpretation when viewing both chapters .. helps reveal both chapters equally.

Unfortunately, it does disagree with what you laid out for I can't even see a way to include what you said as even a possible duality because of the specificity of it all.

Shall I continue?

Or am I just being too 'encouraging' for so early in the morning (in Perth anyways) .. LOL.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

 

That's an interesting interpretation .. can't say I've ever heard that one before M .. you might even say the same about the interpretation I hold .. possibly.

And what I am about to say connects both chapters, 7 & 8, as speaking of the same thing with chapter 8 adding extra information to confirm chapter 7's interpretation.

And this is the key :

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

So the 4 beasts are not representing the empires, but specific kings .. which interpretation when viewing both chapters .. helps reveal both chapters equally.

Unfortunately, it does disagree with what you laid out for I can't even see a way to include what you said as even a possible duality because of the specificity of it all.

Shall I continue?

Or am I just being too 'encouraging' for so early in the morning (in Perth anyways) .. LOL.

Hi Serving,

I was thinking, you being in Perth would be up early. I`m over in the East, Victoria near the Murray River, so it`s afternoon now.

OK, now we are getting down to details. Great. So, yes I see they are 4 kings, (Dan. 7: 17) however if we look further God tells us that the 4th beast `shall be a fourth kingdom on the earth.` (v. 23). Thus the kings represent the kingdoms.

So......

Marilyn.

[Serving]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Serving,

I was thinking, you being in Perth would be up early. I`m over in the East, Victoria near the Murray River, so it`s afternoon now.

OK, now we are getting down to details. Great. So, yes I see they are 4 kings, (Dan. 7: 17) however if we look further God tells us that the 4th beast `shall be a fourth kingdom on the earth.` (v. 23). Thus the kings represent the kingdoms.

So......

Marilyn.

Near the Murray River .. nice.

Yes very good .. LOL .. that was going to brought into it, though not til I made the point regarding the 4 beasts being kings since the kingdom part just serves to confuse the matter at the moment.

Here's my point ..

The first beast was to be Darius the Mede, he was given a mans heart (7:4) rather than a beasts heart (unbeliever/pagan etc) whereby his wings were plucked (brought down to earth/humbled) because he acknowledged God after making intercession to Him on Daniels behalf chpt 6 .. which brought about Darius' proclamation 7:25-27 for all men to tremble before the Living God, whereby, unawares or not, Darius prophesied of God's kingdom v26 to come .. the proper meaning of the heart of a 'man' in God's eyes, unlike those 'men' who do not acknowledge Him being like wild beasts (spiritually speaking).

And this king Darius is the smaller of the two horns on the Ram in Daniel 8:3 which we are informed are two particular kings .. keep in mind TWO horns in chpt 8 and two beasts (kings) in chapter 7 BEFORE the GREEKS come .. a strong link indeed.

Back to Daniel 7, the second beast like a bear, notice he comes up on his side .. meaning he arises within an already established empire/kingdom .. that is, he did not forge this kingdom but was in line to inherit it .. we also see three ribs between it's teeth .. denoting the previous 3 kings before him ..  now skip to chapter 11 .. Gabriel narrows the meaning down for Daniel and reveals that the king Daniel saw with 3 ribs in his mouth was the richest of them all, hence the taller horn of chapter 8 .. it was higher because it was the most rich/powerful of the kings .. and this king was to initiate (stir up) the peoples against Greece, which was Xerxes who indeed was the richest of them all, having 3 other Persian kings before him and indeed stirred up the realm against the Greeks.

And it so happens that in Daniel 8 that we see that 'higher' horn warring against the 'he Goat' which so happens to be Greece and her king(s) with the 'he Goat' (not the great horn) being Philip, Alexanders father.

So again, Xerxes was the Bear in Daniel 7 being that same horn in Daniel 8 who was 'higher' (richest of them all) than that other horn whereby Daniel received that added detail in Daniel 11 revealing that it was that horn itself who was to stir up his realm against the Grecian 'he Goat'  which coincidently is exactly what happened.

So that covers the 'higher' horn of Daniel 8, completing the two horns .. again, we see the link between chapter 7 & 8 I believe are speaking of the same event with chapter 11 helping to confirm the details .. that is, two particular Media Persian kings (which GOD is acknowledging not historians) whereby the last and most richest of them all stirs up the realm against Grecia.

I will stop for now and let you go over it .. see if you can at least acknowledge the link (not meaning you have to accept it either M, just if you can see my point)

Thanks M.

 

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

These kings are spiritual rulers (Powers) over earthly kingdoms and empires. This principle is fundamental to understanding Daniel and Revelation.

[Serving]

3 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

These kings are spiritual rulers (Powers) over earthly kingdoms and empires. This principle is fundamental to understanding Daniel and Revelation.

If you agree that the great horn which was broken is Alexander the great, whose generals correlate with the 3rd beast (leopard), then I can not see the problem regarding the other horns/beasts also being human kings .. if one goes by that method of course.

[WilliamL]

12 minutes ago, Serving said:

If you agree that the great horn which was broken is Alexander the great, whose generals correlate with the 3rd beast (leopard), then I can not see the problem regarding the other horns/beasts also being human kings .. if one goes by that method of course.

You cannot equate horns with the "great beasts" of Dan. 7 and Rev. 13. Horns represent earthly authorities, ruling among men; these beasts represent spiritual  Powers who control nations and their human rulers from generation to generation. Different levels of authority.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

I read your notes. So are you telling me that those past Medes & Persians & Greek Kingdoms will go into the millennium?

`I watched till the (4th)`beast` was slain, & its body destroyed & given to the burning flame. As for the rest of the beasts (Lion/eagle, Bear, Leopard) , they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged  for a season & a time.` (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)

Marilyn.

[Serving]

23 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You cannot equate horns with the "great beasts" of Dan. 7 and Rev. 13. Horns represent earthly authorities, ruling among men; these beasts represent spiritual  Powers who control nations and their human rulers from generation to generation. Different levels of authority.

oops made a mistake, will re- do