What is the "Gospel" of Yashua, (Jesus)?

[thereselittleflower]

1 minute ago, completedbeliever1 said:

That is precicely what they mean.  

We need to take some time and reflect on what we know, and where we gained this information.

We also need to remember that there is a reason people do not agree.

Truth is always going to be right there where YAHVAH left it.  We only need to pick it up and run with it.

Once we see the truth, we will never want to let it go. It is too precious.  It is worth more than gold, silver, diamonds, and lands.

The truth of the resurrection, the truth of the full body immersion, the truth of all things will be seen. 

I know the truth, and it has set me free.

I hope that everyone here will see the truth one day too.  

Peace to you all...

In the name of Yashua Messiah.

Let it be so.

No - just no.  They are your private interpretation which ignores the context, which is the creation of man, of Adam and Eve.

 

[completedbeliever1]

45 minutes ago, other one said:

Whatever you did on that post, don't do it again....

To whom is that directed?

[other one]

54 minutes ago, completedbeliever1 said:

To whom is that directed?

the post that was above mine.....   something was inserted that messed with the HTML code on the page and it was not reproducible with Firefox.

[completedbeliever1]

10 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

No - just no.  They are your private interpretation which ignores the context, which is the creation of man, of Adam and Eve.

 

No...

You lack a fundamental understanding of the MEANING of the Old Testament.

Just stop and be a Berean. It is not hard to go search these things out to see if they are true.

That is my challenge to all here...

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, completedbeliever1 said:

No...

You lack a fundamental understanding of the MEANING of the Old Testament.

Just stop and be a Berean. It is not hard to go search these things out to see if they are true.

That is my challenge to all here...

A Berean was someone who, because of the cosmopolitan city they lived in, had developed an oepn minded appreciation of the views of the various peoples and cultures that came through there  - it was a major junction in the meeting of multiple cultures as people traveled through in trade and commerce.  This broadened their horizons and made them more receptive to giving Paul an honest hearing, which included searching the scripture to see if the passages Paul used said what he actually said.   Bereans were open minded people, not closed minded as those were whom Paul had just left

That is what being a Berean is about - being open minded with a desire for truth and diligently verifying what is said.

I find that when I apply their approach to your claims, your claims don't stand up.

 

 

[completedbeliever1]

5 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

A Berean was someone who, because of the cosmopolitan city they lived in, had developed an oepn minded appreciation of the views of the various peoples and cultures that came through there  - it was a major junction in the meeting of multiple cultures as people traveled through in trade and commerce.  This broadened their horizons and made them more receptive to giving Paul an honest hearing, which included searching the scripture to see if the passages Paul used said what he actually said.   Bereans were open minded people, not closed minded as those were whom Paul had just left

That is what being a Berean is about - being open minded with a desire for truth and diligently verifying what is said.

I find that when I apply their approach to your claims, your claims don't stand up.

 

 

Acts 17:11
"The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed..." 

Noble-minded (KJV noble) = having or characteristic of an honorable, upright, and superior mind.
Eagerness (KJV readiness of mind) = enthusiasm to do or to have something

Noble mindedness does not mean to be open minded.
But why with "eagerness"?

This is saying that the people there were honorable and righteous more so than others in the area.  And didnt believe or disbelieve on a whim.  But why? 

Berea (Veria) is only about 45 to 50 miles, depending as shown on Google maps, from Thessaloniki.  Since the apostles were already in the area, it is obvious that the word of Yashua was spreading.  They must have heard about these men who "turned the world upside down" before they even got there.

"These that have turned the world upside down are come here also..."
But how did they know they had turned the world upside down?

Roughly from Aleppo, Syria to Veria, Greece, there are 1,120 miles. Paul stayed in cities for several weeks teaching while other disciples went elsewhere.  To say that "the word of God" was limited to those places they preached, is to say that people were not mobile back then.  Gossip is what gossip is, and sometimes, (unfortunately) it runs faster (horseback, boat, chariot) than the truth.  

This "are come here also" was just a few verses before.  If the men in that city (Thessolonica) said the word "also" then that means they knew about it beforehand.  This is the reason the Bereans "...received the word with great eagerness..."  They wanted to know if what these men, who turned the world upside down, were saying was true.  They gave them an audience and listened.  And THEN searched the scriptures.

Paul was in Thessolonica for three weeks before being sent to Berea.  
"...they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures."

That was plenty of time for those in Berea to know about Paul, and the "gospel".

But even there Paul got sent out because of the men from Thessolonica.
"But when the Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God at Berea, some of them went there too, agitating the crowds and stirring them up."

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, completedbeliever1 said:

Acts 17:11
"The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed..." 

Noble-minded (KJV noble) = having or characteristic of an honorable, upright, and superior mind.
Eagerness (KJV readiness of mind) = enthusiasm to do or to have something

Noble mindedness does not mean to be open minded.
But why with "eagerness"?

This is saying that the people there were honorable and righteous more so than others in the area.  And didnt believe or disbelieve on a whim.  But why? 

Berea (Veria) is only about 45 to 50 miles, depending as shown on Google maps, from Thessaloniki.  Since the apostles were already in the area, it is obvious that the word of Yashua was spreading.  They must have heard about these men who "turned the world upside down" before they even got there.

"These that have turned the world upside down are come here also..."
But how did they know they had turned the world upside down?

Roughly from Aleppo, Syria to Veria, Greece, there are 1,120 miles. Paul stayed in cities for several weeks teaching while other disciples went elsewhere.  To say that "the word of God" was limited to those places they preached, is to say that people were not mobile back then.  Gossip is what gossip is, and sometimes, (unfortunately) it runs faster (horseback, boat, chariot) than the truth.  

This "are come here also" was just a few verses before.  If the men in that city (Thessolonica) said the word "also" then that means they knew about it beforehand.  This is the reason the Bereans "...received the word with great eagerness..."  They wanted to know if what these men, who turned the world upside down, were saying was true.  They gave them an audience and listened.  And THEN searched the scriptures.

Paul was in Thessolonica for three weeks before being sent to Berea.  
"...they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures."

That was plenty of time for those in Berea to know about Paul, and the "gospel".

But even there Paul got sent out because of the men from Thessolonica.
"But when the Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God at Berea, some of them went there too, agitating the crowds and stirring them up."

Well I would like to share what I found.   When I look at this more closely, I find this:

• Act 17:11

  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The writer is making a comparison between the Bereans and the Thessalonicans.  This translation says "fair minded" - and since much importance was placed of 'noble minded" in your response, and your claim that this does not mean more open minded, so I've looked at multiple translations:

• New International Version
  Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
  
  New Living Translation
  And the people of Berea were  more open-minded  than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
  
  English Standard Version
  Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
  
  Berean Study Bible
  Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
  
  Berean Literal Bible
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all readiness, on every day examining the Scriptures, whether these things were so.
  
  New American Standard Bible 
  Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
  
  King James Bible
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  Holman Christian Standard Bible
  The people here were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, since they welcomed the message with eagerness and examined the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 
  
  International Standard Version
  These people were more receptive than those in Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive the message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if those things were so. 
  
  NET Bible
  These Jews were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they eagerly received the message, examining the scriptures carefully every day to see if these things were so.
  
  Aramaic Bible in Plain English
  For those Jews who were there were nobler than those Jews who were in Thessaloniqa, and they were hearing gladly from the word every day while they were distinguishing from Scripture whether these things were so.
  
  GOD'S WORD® Translation
  The people of Berea were more open-minded than the people of Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive God's message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true.
  
  New American Standard 1977 
  Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.
  
  Jubilee Bible 2000
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all diligence and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  King James 2000 Bible
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  American King James Version
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  American Standard Version
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
  
  Douay-Rheims Bible
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so. 
  
  Darby Bible Translation
  And these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, receiving the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so.
  
  English Revised Version
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
  
  Webster's Bible Translation
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  Weymouth New Testament
  The Jews at Beroea were of a nobler disposition than those in Thessalonica, for they very readily received the Message, and day after day searched the Scriptures to see whether it was as Paul stated.
  
  World English Bible
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
  
  Young's Literal Translation
  and these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, they received the word with all readiness of mind, every day examining the Writings whether those things were so;

 

 

A few translations actually say "more open minded" so I looked at what it actually say in the Greek:

I found this doesn't mean what you think it means.  It has to do with rank, station:

• †εὐγενής eugenḗs, yoog-en'-ace; from G2095 and G1096; well born, i.e. (literally) high in rank, or (figuratively) generous:—more noble, nobleman.

 

So they were either more noble BORN, well born, high in rank than the Thessalonicans, or they were more generous than the Thessalonicans.

• Barnes' Notes on the Bible
  These were more noble - εὐγενέστεροι eugenesteroi. This literally means more noble by birth; descended from more illustrious ancestors. But here the word is used to denote a quality of mind and heart. They were more generous, liberal, and noble in their feelings; more disposed to inquire candidly into the truth of the doctrines advanced by Paul and Silas. It is always proof of a noble, liberal, and ingenuous disposition to be willing to examine into the truth of any doctrine presented. The writer refers here particularly to the Jews

 

• Matthew Poole's Commentary
  The Jews of Berea did excel those of Thessalonica, not so much in birth as in disposition: they were not so prejudiced and obstinate; they patiently heard Paul; they seriously thought upon what he had said, and compared it with the Scriptures. And thus God gave them the preparation of the heart; and they brought their empty vessels. No wonder then that the oil of grace ran into them, and filled them. The Jews call their learned men, the sons of nobles; and according to that expression, these Bereans, that had acted so ingenuously and wisely, were said to be more noble. 

 

• Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible 

  They had a freer thought, and lay more open to conviction, were willing to hear reason, and admit the force of it, and to subscribe to that which appeared to them to be truth, though it was contrary to their former sentiments. This was more noble.

  They had a better temper, were not so sour, and morose, and ill conditioned towards all that were not of their mind. As they were ready to come into a unity with those that by the power of truth they were brought to concur with, so they continued in charity with those that they saw cause to differ from. This was more noble. They neither prejudged the cause, nor were moved with envy at the managers of it, as the Jews at Thessalonica were, but very generously gave both it and them a fair hearing, without passion orpartiality. (Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible, p. 2141)

 

Either way, literally or figuratively, they were those of high rank, nobility were better educated, exposed to new ideas a great deal more than the Thessalonicans, and so would be predisposed to be behave more generously toward Paul and his message.   In contrast the Thessalonicans drove Paul out of town and refused to hear him.

 

Also what is interesting is this Greek word translated "noble minded" "open minded" here I found is only used a total of 3 times in scripture.  Here are the other two times it is used in all of scripture: 

• 1 Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 

   

  Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 

In each of these other 2 instances, it is clearly referring to one's station in life, which would, by direct and obvious inference, include education and upbringing appropriate for that station in life. . 

Again, Matthew Henry, in his Commentary on the Whole Bible has something interesting to say about this verse in Luke:

II. The good character of the Jews in Berea (Act_17:11): These were more noble than those in Thessalonica. The Jews in the synagogue at Berea were better disposed to receive the gospel than the Jews in the synagogue at Thessalonica; they were not so bigoted and prejudiced against it, not so peevish and ill-natured; they were more noble, eugenesteroi - better bred. 

 

Luke is emphasising not only the fact that they were "better bred", but als the fact that the results of their being better bred (which can be a confusing term today for some) were evident.

Here are some definitions from Webster that apply specifically to what Matthew Henry said, and help us see how the usage of this Greek word in Luke ties in with the other two instances it is used in the NT:

• Websters:
  
  Bred
  
  BRED, pp. of breed. Generated; produced; contrived; educated.
  
  
  Breed
  
  BREED, v.t. pret. and pp. bred.
  
  6. To educate; to instruct; to form by education; often, but unnecessarily, followed by up; as, to breed a son to an occupation; a man bred at a university. To breed up is vulgar.
  7. To bring up; to nurse and foster; to take care of in infancy, and through the age of youth; to provide for, train and conduct; to instruct the mind and form the manners in youth.

The Bereans were well born, better educated, better brought up and instructed, had better manners. . . we see this all evidenced in how they responded to Paul, unlike the Thessalonians (who Luke compared them to) who were closed minded, prejudiced, and treated Paul very poorly.

In keeping with all this, here are some notes from Biblical scholars on this verse and this word:

• Noble-minded, open-minded ou|toi h\san eujgenevsteroi tw`n ejn Qessalonivkh/ these were more open-minded than those in Th. Ac 17:11 A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature, 2nd ed., rev. and augmented [Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979], 319).
  
  Thus the Jews of Berea were more noble [in character] than those of Thessalonica in their welcome and cordial treatment of the apostles (Celas Spicq, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament [Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publ., 1994], vol. 2, pg. 94).
  
  eujgenhv", ev": a willingness to learn and evaluate something fairly¾willingness to learn, to be open-minded, to be noble-minded. ou|toi de; h\san eujgenevsteroi tw`n ejn Qessalonivkh/ the people there were more open-minded than the people in Thessalonica Ac 17.11 (Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains ed. by Johannes Louw and Eugene Nida [New York, NY: United Bible Societies, 1989], no. 27.48).
  
  Originally refers to nobility of birth, it came to denote those qualities which were expected in people so born, in the same way as Eng. noble. Moffet renders more amenable, LC (better) more generous, . . . It is the equivalent of Lat. generosus, noble, liberal, free from prejudice (F. F. Bruce, The Acts of the Apostles [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1975], 238).

 

Additionally:

• Bereas position overlooking the Haliacmon plains, and its proximity to the natural springs at the base of Mount Bermius, made it one of the more desirable towns of the region. Its people were of high social standing, as indicated by inscriptions archaeologists have unearthed as well as Lukes account in Acts, which describes the people as "more noble." 

 

Evidence of the higher social standing of the bereans is even reflected in Acts:

• And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. 
   

Luke, in speaking of these honorable women is speaking also of their high social standing - using the same phrase he used in Acts 13:30.

• Act 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. 

Other commentators have this to say about the use of the term 'honorable women in Acts 17

• Honourable women - See the notes on Mar_15:43. Women of influence, and connected with families of rank. Perhaps they were proselytes, and were connected with the magistrates of the city.
  Albert Barne Notes on the Bible
  
  
  Of honorable women which were Greeks - Probably mere heathens are meant; and these were some of the chief families in the place.
  Adam Clarke's Commentary on the bible

 

 

That's all this is saying - they were more open minded than the Thessalonicans.  

What I found is Luke was saying here is not that they were more noble because they searched the scriptures, but because they were more noble, more open minded, etc, they were willing to hear Paul and search the scriptures UNLIKE the Thessalonicans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[completedbeliever1]

1 hour ago, thereselittleflower said:

Well I would like to share what I found.   When I look at this more closely, I find this:

• Act 17:11

  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The writer is making a comparison between the Bereans and the Thessalonicans.  This translation says "fair minded" - and since much importance was placed of 'noble minded" in your response, and your claim that this does not mean more open minded, so I've looked at multiple translations:

• New International Version
  Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
  
  New Living Translation
  And the people of Berea were  more open-minded  than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
  
  English Standard Version
  Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
  
  Berean Study Bible
  Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
  
  Berean Literal Bible
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all readiness, on every day examining the Scriptures, whether these things were so.
  
  New American Standard Bible 
  Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
  
  King James Bible
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  Holman Christian Standard Bible
  The people here were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, since they welcomed the message with eagerness and examined the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 
  
  International Standard Version
  These people were more receptive than those in Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive the message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if those things were so. 
  
  NET Bible
  These Jews were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they eagerly received the message, examining the scriptures carefully every day to see if these things were so.
  
  Aramaic Bible in Plain English
  For those Jews who were there were nobler than those Jews who were in Thessaloniqa, and they were hearing gladly from the word every day while they were distinguishing from Scripture whether these things were so.
  
  GOD'S WORD® Translation
  The people of Berea were more open-minded than the people of Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive God's message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true.
  
  New American Standard 1977 
  Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.
  
  Jubilee Bible 2000
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all diligence and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  King James 2000 Bible
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  American King James Version
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  American Standard Version
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
  
  Douay-Rheims Bible
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so. 
  
  Darby Bible Translation
  And these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, receiving the word with all readiness of mind, daily searching the scriptures if these things were so.
  
  English Revised Version
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
  
  Webster's Bible Translation
  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  
  Weymouth New Testament
  The Jews at Beroea were of a nobler disposition than those in Thessalonica, for they very readily received the Message, and day after day searched the Scriptures to see whether it was as Paul stated.
  
  World English Bible
  Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
  
  Young's Literal Translation
  and these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, they received the word with all readiness of mind, every day examining the Writings whether those things were so;

 

 

A few translations actually say "more open minded" so I looked at what it actually say in the Greek:

I found this doesn't mean what you think it means.  It has to do with rank, station:

• †εὐγενής eugenḗs, yoog-en'-ace; from G2095 and G1096; well born, i.e. (literally) high in rank, or (figuratively) generous:—more noble, nobleman.

 

So they were either more noble BORN, well born, high in rank than the Thessalonicans, or they were more generous than the Thessalonicans.

• Barnes' Notes on the Bible
  These were more noble - εὐγενέστεροι eugenesteroi. This literally means more noble by birth; descended from more illustrious ancestors. But here the word is used to denote a quality of mind and heart. They were more generous, liberal, and noble in their feelings; more disposed to inquire candidly into the truth of the doctrines advanced by Paul and Silas. It is always proof of a noble, liberal, and ingenuous disposition to be willing to examine into the truth of any doctrine presented. The writer refers here particularly to the Jews

 

• Matthew Poole's Commentary
  The Jews of Berea did excel those of Thessalonica, not so much in birth as in disposition: they were not so prejudiced and obstinate; they patiently heard Paul; they seriously thought upon what he had said, and compared it with the Scriptures. And thus God gave them the preparation of the heart; and they brought their empty vessels. No wonder then that the oil of grace ran into them, and filled them. The Jews call their learned men, the sons of nobles; and according to that expression, these Bereans, that had acted so ingenuously and wisely, were said to be more noble. 

 

• Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible 

  They had a freer thought, and lay more open to conviction, were willing to hear reason, and admit the force of it, and to subscribe to that which appeared to them to be truth, though it was contrary to their former sentiments. This was more noble.

  They had a better temper, were not so sour, and morose, and ill conditioned towards all that were not of their mind. As they were ready to come into a unity with those that by the power of truth they were brought to concur with, so they continued in charity with those that they saw cause to differ from. This was more noble. They neither prejudged the cause, nor were moved with envy at the managers of it, as the Jews at Thessalonica were, but very generously gave both it and them a fair hearing, without passion orpartiality. (Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible, p. 2141)

 

Either way, literally or figuratively, they were those of high rank, nobility were better educated, exposed to new ideas a great deal more than the Thessalonicans, and so would be predisposed to be behave more generously toward Paul and his message.   In contrast the Thessalonicans drove Paul out of town and refused to hear him.

 

Also what is interesting is this Greek word translated "noble minded" "open minded" here I found is only used a total of 3 times in scripture.  Here are the other two times it is used in all of scripture: 

• 1 Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 

   

  Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 

In each of these other 2 instances, it is clearly referring to one's station in life, which would, by direct and obvious inference, include education and upbringing appropriate for that station in life. . 

Again, Matthew Henry, in his Commentary on the Whole Bible has something interesting to say about this verse in Luke:

II. The good character of the Jews in Berea (Act_17:11): These were more noble than those in Thessalonica. The Jews in the synagogue at Berea were better disposed to receive the gospel than the Jews in the synagogue at Thessalonica; they were not so bigoted and prejudiced against it, not so peevish and ill-natured; they were more noble, eugenesteroi - better bred. 

 

Luke is emphasising not only the fact that they were "better bred", but als the fact that the results of their being better bred (which can be a confusing term today for some) were evident.

Here are some definitions from Webster that apply specifically to what Matthew Henry said, and help us see how the usage of this Greek word in Luke ties in with the other two instances it is used in the NT:

• Websters:
  
  Bred
  
  BRED, pp. of breed. Generated; produced; contrived; educated.
  
  
  Breed
  
  BREED, v.t. pret. and pp. bred.
  
  6. To educate; to instruct; to form by education; often, but unnecessarily, followed by up; as, to breed a son to an occupation; a man bred at a university. To breed up is vulgar.
  7. To bring up; to nurse and foster; to take care of in infancy, and through the age of youth; to provide for, train and conduct; to instruct the mind and form the manners in youth.

 

The Bereans were well born, better educated, better brought up and instructed, had better manners. . . we see this all evidenced in how they responded to Paul, unlike the Thessalonians (who Luke compared them to) who were closed minded, prejudiced, and treated Paul very poorly.

In keeping with all this, here are some notes from Biblical scholars on this verse and this word:

• Noble-minded, open-minded ou|toi h\san eujgenevsteroi tw`n ejn Qessalonivkh/ these were more open-minded than those in Th. Ac 17:11 A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature, 2nd ed., rev. and augmented [Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979], 319).
  
  Thus the Jews of Berea were more noble [in character] than those of Thessalonica in their welcome and cordial treatment of the apostles (Celas Spicq, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament [Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publ., 1994], vol. 2, pg. 94).
  
  eujgenhv", ev": a willingness to learn and evaluate something fairly¾willingness to learn, to be open-minded, to be noble-minded. ou|toi de; h\san eujgenevsteroi tw`n ejn Qessalonivkh/ the people there were more open-minded than the people in Thessalonica Ac 17.11 (Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains ed. by Johannes Louw and Eugene Nida [New York, NY: United Bible Societies, 1989], no. 27.48).
  
  Originally refers to nobility of birth, it came to denote those qualities which were expected in people so born, in the same way as Eng. noble. Moffet renders more amenable, LC (better) more generous, . . . It is the equivalent of Lat. generosus, noble, liberal, free from prejudice (F. F. Bruce, The Acts of the Apostles [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1975], 238).

 

Additionally:

• Bereas position overlooking the Haliacmon plains, and its proximity to the natural springs at the base of Mount Bermius, made it one of the more desirable towns of the region. Its people were of high social standing, as indicated by inscriptions archaeologists have unearthed as well as Lukes account in Acts, which describes the people as "more noble." 

 

Evidence of the higher social standing of the bereans is even reflected in Acts:

• And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. 
   

Luke, in speaking of these honorable women is speaking also of their high social standing - using the same phrase he used in Acts 13:30.

• Act 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. 

Other commentators have this to say about the use of the term 'honorable women in Acts 17

• Honourable women - See the notes on Mar_15:43. Women of influence, and connected with families of rank. Perhaps they were proselytes, and were connected with the magistrates of the city.
  Albert Barne Notes on the Bible
  
  Of honorable women which were Greeks - Probably mere heathens are meant; and these were some of the chief families in the place.
  Adam Clarke's Commentary on the bible

 

 

That's all this is saying - they were more open minded than the Thessalonicans.  

What I found is Luke was saying here is not that they were more noble because they searched the scriptures, but because they were more noble, more open minded, etc, they were willing to hear Paul and search the scriptures UNLIKE the Thessalonicans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The word of YAHVAH says they were more noble because they searched the scriptures to see if Paul was correct in his teaching.  They were more mature. They were eager to learn.  

Social standing aside, rank in office aside, this is about mental maturity.  

Barnes, Poole, and Henry all show that it was of education, not breed.  (And of course my mother was a horse handler and bred Arabians for a living.  The "better bred" is not an argument seeing that the word is talking about mindset, not "nobility".)

Maybe the definition of "open mindedness" differs between you and me, but as of today, we see that to be open minded is to allow false teaching to edge its way into our belief system.

I find it interesting that we are off on a rabbit trail...
Lets get back on topic.

 

[thereselittleflower]

3 minutes ago, completedbeliever1 said:

The word of YAHVAH says they were more noble because they searched the scriptures to see if Paul was correct in his teaching.  They were more mature. They were eager to learn.  


 

Actually it doesn't.

The underlying Greek puts it in the opposite -  they gave Paul a fair hearing and searched the scripture because they were more noble, more noble minded, more open minded, etc, because they were more open to receive what Paul said than the Thessalonians were.

This is about comparing two responses  to Paul by two different groups and this verse tells us why their response was different  - because of their open mindedness, fair mindedness, noble mindedness.

Quote

Social standing aside, rank in office aside, this is about mental maturity.  

Barnes, Poole, and Henry all show that it was of education, not breed.  (And of course my mother was a horse handler and bred Arabians for a living.  The "better bred" is not an argument seeing that the word is talking about mindset, not "nobility".)

Maybe the definition of "open mindedness" differs between you and me, but as of today, we see that to be open minded is to allow false teaching to edge its way into our belief system.

I find it interesting that we are off on a rabbit trail...
Lets get back on topic.
 

We probably are using "open minded" differently.    One translation uses  "fair minded" which maybe captures it better for you.

If it were not for their open mindedness, or fair mindedness, they would have treated Paul like the Thessalonians did.

One must never close off their minds to truth.

 

 

 

[completedbeliever1]

2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Actually it doesn't.

The underlying Greek puts it in the opposite -  they gave Paul a fair hearing and searched the scripture because they were more noble, more noble minded, more open minded, etc, because they were more open to receive what Paul said than the Thessalonians were.

This is about comparing two responses  to Paul by two different groups and this verse tells us why their response was different  - because of their open mindedness, fair mindedness, noble mindedness.

We probably are using "open minded" differently.    One translation uses  "fair minded" which maybe captures it better for you.

If it were not for their open mindedness, or fair mindedness, they would have treated Paul like the Thessalonians did.

One must never close off their minds to truth.

 

 

 

That is what I said, they listened to Paul because they were more mentally mature than those in Thessolonica.  Just because I didnt say "more than those in Thessolonica" does not mean I didnt compare the two.  

The inference should have been obvious.

Yeah, one must never do that...