Isaiah 45:5 vs Psalm 82:6

[ProzacR]

Quote

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Quote

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
 

Explain please.

[Guest]

This is the problem with pulling a verse out of context and comparing it to another verse out of context. In Isaiah, GOD is talking to Cyrus, the king of Persia; HE is telling him that HE, GOD, has empowered him to be king of the world even though Cyrus did not know GOD. In the Psalm, it is a plea for justice. Note that the minor "god" is used, not "God" and was not therefore comparing man to GOD. Instead, the verse is saying that man was above all else on Earth; mighty ones, and judges; yet still subject to the "Most High" (GOD). Verse 7 continues "But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

[ProzacR]

5 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

This is the problem with pulling a verse out of context and comparing it to another verse out of context. In Isaiah, GOD is talking to Cyrus, the king of Persia; HE is telling him that HE, GOD, has empowered him to be king of the world even though Cyrus did not know GOD. In the Psalm, it is a plea for justice. Note that the minor "god" is used, not "God" and was not therefore comparing man to GOD. Instead, the verse is saying that man was above all else on Earth; mighty ones, and judges; yet still subject to the "Most High" (GOD). Verse 7 continues "But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

Thank you.

[thereselittleflower]

3 hours ago, ProzacR said:

Explain please.

I think CS Lewis explains it quite well in Weight of Glory:

 

• “It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which,if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all of our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations - these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit - immortal horrors or everlasting splendors.” 
  ― C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

 

[Openly Curious]

26 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

This is the problem with pulling a verse out of context and comparing it to another verse out of context. In Isaiah, GOD is talking to Cyrus, the king of Persia; HE is telling him that HE, GOD, has empowered him to be king of the world even though Cyrus did not know GOD. In the Psalm, it is a plea for justice. Note that the minor "god" is used, not "God" and was not therefore comparing man to GOD. Instead, the verse is saying that man was above all else on Earth; mighty ones, and judges; yet still subject to the "Most High" (GOD). Verse 7 continues "But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

Well said

[TrevorL]

Greetings ProzacR,

11 hours ago, ProzacR said:

Explain please.

The reason why the Judges in Israel were given the title “god” is that they represented God when they judged the people. They received the word of God and were expected to be faithful to this word in judging the people. They were not separate deities. This is partly a Hebrew idiom or language usage, but also we use the same concept when we represent a company by saying “David Jones” here, if this is the name of our retail shop.

Jesus explains why they were called “gods” in the following, where he actually quotes Psalm 82:6
John 10:34-35 (KJV): 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

There is a similar usage of this idea where the Hebrew word “elohim” usually translated God is translated angels in the following:
Psalm 8:4-6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[manuelf324]

When reading the Bible if your not dispensational and not saved. You won't understand it. The natural man can't receive things of the Spirit. Book of Matthew is a book that has been misunderstood by the majority. Why? THEY ARE NOT SAVED OR ARE NON DISPENSATIONAL! 

KJV 1 Corinthians  2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

KJV 1 Corinthians  2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

KJV Colossians  1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Edited January 20, 2016 by manuelf324

[other one]

On 1/19/2016 at 10:46 AM, ProzacR said:

Explain please.

the problem is that the word or term god is used for many different gods....   and the Bible tells us that  there are many gods and lords...   but we must be careful of mixing them with our God....     for to us he/they are the only one.    While the others may be deity (higher than a mere human) they are not in the same level as Our God.

[Ezra]

On 19/01/2016 at 9:46 AM, ProzacR said:

Explain please.

"Ye are gods" could also be "ye are mighty ones", with reference to the judges of Israel.

[TrevorL]

 

Greetings again ProzacR and Ezra,

10 hours ago, Ezra said:

"Ye are gods" could also be "ye are mighty ones", with reference to the judges of Israel.

I agree with Ezra that “gods’ in John 10:34 and Psalm 82:6 refers to the judges. The following is a more detailed explanation.

John 10:33-36 (KJV): 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
The first thing to note is in v34: “Jesus answered them”. Jesus did not agree with their assessment or accusation. Jesus quotes from Psalm 82 and a careful reading of that Psalm would help to understand that the Psalm is speaking of the unjust judges in Israel, and that God would judge them for their failure to correctly judge the poor.

The answer that Jesus gives is based upon the OT usage of the word “God”, “gods”, that is the Hebrew word “Elohim”. Jesus speaks concerning the fact that in the OT the judges were called God or gods. It is interesting to note that the translators had difficulty with the relevant verses where the Judges acted in the role of God (Hebrew Elohim):
Exodus 21:6 (KJV): 6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exodus 21:6 (ASV): then his master shall bring him unto God, and shall bring him to the door, or unto the door-post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever.

Exodus 22:8-9 (KJV): 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods. 9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.
Exodus 22:8-9 (ASV): 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall come near unto God, to see whether he have not put his hand unto his neighbor’s goods. 9 For every matter of trespass, whether it be for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, whereof one saith, This is it, the cause of both parties shall come before God; he whom God shall condemn shall pay double unto his neighbor.

The role and responsibility of the judges is indicated in the following:
Deuteronomy 1:17 (KJV): Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God’s: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.
2 Chronicles 19:6 (KJV): And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.
So the judges were called God or gods because they were united in administering the work or judgements of God. Jesus was claiming a similar though superior role as The Son of God, by calling and claiming God as His Father.

Another strong feature of Jesus’ answer to the Pharisees and Scribes is that in quoting from Psalm 82, Jesus is showing that they were like these unjust Judges, as they had already sought his arrest and were wanting to kill him. God in Heaven would stand up in judgement against these unjust judges and they would perish.

Kind regards
Trevor