refugees to wear wristbands in cardiff

[Guest shiloh357]

A good way for us to maintain peaceful society in the face of Islamic evil is for good, law abiding people to be better at violence than the Islamists.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

21 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

I have mixed feelings about the armbands.

I keep thinking of the Star of David Jews were forced to wear in Nazi Germany.

The difference is the Jews were non-violent.  The Muslim refugees have substantial terrorists in their midst who are plotting further acts of terror.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

9 hours ago, gdemoss said:

Right!  When I would to do good....!

?

[other one]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

A good way for us to maintain peaceful society in the face of Islamic evil is for good, law abiding people to be better at violence than the Islamists.

I think Sadam was doing that till we got involved

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Shiloh, you put it into words!  I've been trying to figure out why pacifism is so appalling to me and there it is.  Good post.

I think the words of Jesus and scripture should be paramount:

•  

  Col 1.16  for in him [the son] all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him.
  
  Heb 1.2-3  In these last days [God] has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.  3  who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
  
  Mt 5:44  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  45  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
  
  Lu 6:27  But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29  If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;
  
  Lu 6:35  But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
  
  Mt 5:39  But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned.  -Bible in Basic English
  
  Lu 6:37  "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
  
  Lu 12:22  And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.
  
  Mt 26:52  Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
  
  Mt 7:12  In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
  
  1 Peter 3.8  Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.   :9  Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
  
  Ro 12.17-21   Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  18  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19  Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."  20  No, "if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads." 
  21  Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good .  
  
  1Th 5:15  See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.
  
  Lu 6:42  Or how can you say to your neighbor, ’Friend, let me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
  
  Isa 31:1  Alas for those who go down to Egypt for help and who rely on horses, who trust in chariots because they are many and in horsemen because they are very strong, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or consult the LORD!
  
  Rom 5.8,10  8  But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.... 10  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
  
  1 Peter 2.21  For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
  22  He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips.  23  When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly.

  Eph 6.12  For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
   

  2 Co 10:4 The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons, but are mighty for God in overthrowing strong fortresses.

  
  John 8.7  But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
  
  Matt 10.28  And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29  Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s will. 30  But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31  Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
  
  Rom 8.37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38  For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39  nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

I think it is wrong to harshly judge those who choose their course of action based on scripture such as this.

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

 

36 minutes ago, other one said:

 

• Quote

  A good way for us to maintain peaceful society in the face of Islamic evil is for good, law abiding people to be better at violence than the Islamists.

   

I think Sadam was doing that till we got involved

 

I think your comparison is apt.    I was shocked when I read that quote.   I can't believe any christian would suggest that christians should be better at violence than their enemies. 

 

[thereselittleflower]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

Only thing that stops an army of bad guys is an ARMY of GOOD GUYS better trained with better weapons..  Take away the guns of the Police and  what do you think would happen with the criminal element?

The post that makes me shudder was not talking bout the police.

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

36 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I think the words of Jesus and scripture should be paramount:

•  

  Col 1.16  for in him [the son] all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him.
  
  Heb 1.2-3  In these last days [God] has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.  3  who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
  
  Mt 5:44  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  45  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
  
  Lu 6:27  But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29  If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;
  
  Lu 6:35  But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
  
  Mt 5:39  But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned.  -Bible in Basic English
  
  Lu 6:37  "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
  
  Lu 12:22  And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.
  
  Mt 26:52  Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
  
  Mt 7:12  In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
  
  1 Peter 3.8  Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.   :9  Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
  
  Ro 12.17-21   Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  18  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19  Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."  20  No, "if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads." 
  21  Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good .  
  
  1Th 5:15  See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.
  
  Lu 6:42  Or how can you say to your neighbor, ’Friend, let me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
  
  Isa 31:1  Alas for those who go down to Egypt for help and who rely on horses, who trust in chariots because they are many and in horsemen because they are very strong, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or consult the LORD!
  
  Rom 5.8,10  8  But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.... 10  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
  
  1 Peter 2.21  For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
  22  He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips.  23  When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly.

  Eph 6.12  For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
   

  2 Co 10:4 The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons, but are mighty for God in overthrowing strong fortresses.

  
  John 8.7  But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
  
  Matt 10.28  And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29  Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s will. 30  But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31  Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
  
  Rom 8.37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38  For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39  nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

I think it is wrong to harshly judge those who choose their course of action based on scripture such as this.

 

 

 

 

The problem lies with the fact that the liberal application of these texts completely dehumanize the victims of criminal violence.    Loving one's enemies was not being applied to how we respond to physical threats.  

Using Jesus' suffering is not really applicable to a criminal violence scenario as mentioned above because Jesus' suffering was intentional.   Jesus was not a martyr.   Jesus suffered and died as sacrifice for sin.  He endured violence for the purpose of redeeming mankind, so to try and compare that with suffering criminal violence is an intellectual nonstarter.   It simply doesn't wash as a rational argument.

And again, it never really answers the question about how we react to criminal violence when a loved one is threatened.  If "loving one's enemies"  means that we cannot defend our loved ones even violently if need be, then it creates a huge theological problem.   Do you love your family, or the criminal, more?     From the nonsensical position, which is completely bereft of any rational or intelligent value whatsoever, we are supposed to love criminal more than our own family.

What you listed above provides NO prohibition to violent self-defense up to and including deadly force.    It just show, once again, the lack of intelligence in liberal pacifism and why it is such an evil position to hold.

 

[simplejeff]

Isaiah 37:36 Then the angel of the LORD went out and put to death ...

biblehub.com/isaiah/37-36.htm

‎

 

That night the angel of the LORD went out to the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers. 

40 minutes ago, Davida said:

Only thing that stops an army of bad guys is an ARMY of GOOD GUYS better trained with better weapons..  Take away the guns of the Police and  what do you think would happen with the criminal element?

2 Corinthians 13:9

So we rejoice whenever we are weak and you are strong; indeed, what we pray for is that you become perfect.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.

Isaiah 26:3

“A person whose desire rests on you you preserve in perfect peace, because he trusts in you.

 

www yahwehsmessenger.com/romans/more-booklets/

[thereselittleflower]

34 minutes ago, Davida said:

Who would you rather have an army of atheists, ?  or those who are Biblical Christians?  Armies who protect civilians and take on the bad guys have to use violence in order to defeat an attacking army.

Do you know what effectively stops the knife and cleaver hacking Islamic terrorist in Israel from killing a Jewish citizen?   A Gun packing Jewish Citizen!

Again, the post that makes me shudder is not talking about the police or the army.

 

I will stay far away from the claims and teachings of anyone who claims that we as, lawful abiding citizens, that we christians, should be better at violence than our enemies