The beast that goes into Perdition

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

I sit here corrected. I will leave you and sister to your debate... this open forum format here confuses me at times....

I am right there with you at times in being confused.  Goes with the territory!

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

This is not creating, this is mingling with what God already created.

That's the definition of PROCREATE.  I'm not sure you understand that creation and PROcreation are two distinctly different things.

[other one]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I am right there with you at times in being confused.  Goes with the territory!

I agree...    It's become rather boring to see two or three people talk around each other... 

[BlindSeeker]

1 hour ago, other one said:

1 hour ago, other one said:

I agree...    It's become rather boring to see two or three people talk around each other... 

I agree...    It's become rather boring to see two or three people talk around each other... 

That may well be the strategy of those who present themselves as believers here… divide and distract. There actually is godly counsel for preventing this however, which is actually why I have blocked certain such individuals in the past. Of course such only adopt the martyr complex and go away feeling persecuted for own "their" right-ness sake, (not to be confused with righteousness).

I Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5 Now the end [or fulfilment] of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

I Timothy 6:3 - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

II Timothy 2:23 - But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.

Of course, verse 10 is difficult to do on a forum like Worthy with all the restrictions and rules that actually give way to tolerance of such nonsense and hinder effectual reproving and rebuke of such, [i.e., admonition].

[simplejeff]

Very Good BlindSeeker ....  Scripture does not indicate that PAUL an Apostle was able to 

eliminate nor silence the pagans in Athens - all their false gods and idols remained as did most of the pagans ...

so likewise any location open to the world, in the world.

He was able to reach some ((before being arrested; released and fleeing town)) 

, both Jews and greeks ,  as he addressed them : 

http://biblehub.com/acts/17-23.htm

Acts 17:23 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship--and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

New Living Translation
for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: 'To an Unknown God.' This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I'm telling you about.

-----------------------------

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
 The apostle spoke of an altar he had seen, with the inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. This fact is stated by many writers. After multiplying their idols to the utmost, some at Athens thought there was another god of whom they had no knowledge.

And are there not many now called Christians, who are zealous in their devotions, yet the great object of their worship is to them an unknown God?

Observe what glorious things Paul here says of that God whom he served, and would have them to serve. The Lord had long borne with idolatry, but the times of this ignorance were now ending, and by his servants he now commanded all men every where to repent of their idolatry. Each sect of the learned men would feel themselves powerfully affected by the apostle's discourse, which tended to show the emptiness or falsity of their doctrines.

.

27 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

That may well be the strategy of those who present themselves as believers here… divide and distract. There actually is godly counsel for preventing this however, which is actually why I have blocked certain such individuals in the past. Of course such only adopt the martyr complex and go away feeling persecuted for own "their" right-ness sake, (not to be confused with righteousness).

I Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5 Now the end [or fulfilment] of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

I Timothy 6:3 - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

II Timothy 2:23 - But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.

Of course, verse 10 is difficult to do on a forum like Worthy with all the restrictions and rules that actually give way to tolerance of such nonsense and hinder effectual reproving and rebuke of such, [i.e., admonition].

 

[Sister]

5 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

That's the definition of PROCREATE.  I'm not sure you understand that creation and PROcreation are two distinctly different things.

Right.  If the "sons of God" went into the daughters of men, then they pro-created by mating with man, producing a another type of "species", half flesh, half spirit type children.  This was not allowed, and those particular angels responsible for that, are locked up till this day.  They are not free to roam around.  Their offspring were not killed in the flood completely. They are what we call "evil spirits".  They are working under the fallen angels. The angels nor their offspring are not allowed to "procreate" today, but have taught man how to do that in the lab mixing genes.

 

[Serving]

9 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

I've given you an answer multiple times now.

If God says he knows someone before they were born, this means He knew them in UTERO - the time between conception and birth.

How is it you have not seen me say that already?

 

You limit God by your understanding.

God transcends time, He is not subject by it, or limited by it,  which is what He would be IF your understanding were correct.

Romans 8:27-30

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Since God foreknew us, then this matches perfectly the truth that God knows (declares) the end at the beginning.

This "foreknew" does not mean we existed before we were created either, except for in God's intentions before creation (seeing it was His will all of us of were born), other words, it means that God already knew each and every one of us before we came into being because God intended for each and every one of us to be created even before He created the heavens & the earth .. how do you think prophesying works? "in UTERO" too???? as in, prophesying only works when the conditions are ripe for them to come about?? (same concept as "in UTERO") .. of course not ..

You are limiting God in your misunderstanding.

 

 

[n2thelight]

12 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

I've given you an answer multiple times now.

If God says he knows someone before they were born, this means He knew them in UTERO - the time between conception and birth.

How is it you have not seen me say that already?

 

Scripture proves you wrong

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

What part of before,are you missing?

Why was he ordained a prophet?

 

[thereselittleflower]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

You limit God by your understanding.

God transcends time, He is not subject by it, or limited by it,  which is what He would be IF your understanding were correct.

Romans 8:27-30

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Since God foreknew us, then this matches perfectly the truth that God knows (declares) the end at the beginning.

This "foreknew" does not mean we existed before we were created either, except for in God's intentions before creation (seeing it was His will all of us of were born), other words, it means that God already knew each and every one of us before we came into being because God intended for each and every one of us to be created even before He created the heavens & the earth .. how do you think prophesying works? "in UTERO" too???? as in, prophesying only works when the conditions are ripe for them to come about?? (same concept as "in UTERO") .. of course not ..

You are limiting God in your misunderstanding.

 

 

I don't think you are understanding the context of the conversation.

I agree with you that he foreknew us even though we didn't exist yet.

 

What this conversation is about is some are claiming God personally knew us in a time before the creation account in Genesis.  That before we were human, before Adam and Eve were created, we had already been created and were living as something else altogether.  Some are claiming we lived on a pre-genesis earth with lucifer, that some of us rebelled with him, and then God decided to give us a second chance as humans.

Others are simply saying that God created all our souls before he created the heavens and the earth, and that before we are conceived in the womb, we are "somewhere else" waiting to be given a chance to become human.

When I am speaking against God knowing us before we were conceived, I am speaking against this concept that God personally knew us by being acquainted with us because our souls were already created before the earth was made.

 

 

c

 

[thereselittleflower]

44 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Scripture proves you wrong

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

What part of before,are you missing?

 

 

I've already answered that in detail.

You err not understanding the Hebrew this verse was originally written in.