The beast that goes into Perdition

[thereselittleflower]

13 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Jesus was a son of Adam (as well as a son of God). Jesus was not in heaven "always." The Word was, but the Word was not incarnated before Jesus was born. Therefore this statement of yours is based upon a false premise.

If Jesus had such power from eternity, then the Psalm would not say,

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

God the Son, has had ALL power and ALL authority from Eternity Past.

God the Son became Jesus.

Jesus is God the Son

Jesus has all Power and All Authority by virtue of WHO He is  - God.

 

 

[other one]

3 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

God the Son, has had ALL power and ALL authority from Eternity Past.

God the Son became Jesus.

Jesus is God the Son

Jesus has all Power and All Authority by virtue of WHO He is  - God.

 

 

But after he has put everything under him , he will be subject to the Father.....   not equal with him.

[thereselittleflower]

20 minutes ago, other one said:

But after he has put everything under him , he will be subject to the Father.....   not equal with him.

Jesus is always equal to the Father.   Jesus is GOD.    Jesus is God the Son -  All 3 Divine Persons, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit,  are Co-Equal for all Eternity past and future.

You cannot diminish one Divine Person of the Trinity without diminishing God Himself.

 

 

[Sister]

11 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

 

Quote

 

It seems to me you are confusing "spirits" with "spiritual body."

The angels are spirits.   It does not say they have bodies.

 

 therese

It very well does say they have bodies.

What you are feeding on does not harmonise with the scriptures;  maybe you missed these scriptures.  Very important to study the scriptures before arguing about them, because this our sword.

  1 Corinthians 15:40   There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

  1 Corinthians 15:41   There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

  The scriptures say there are different types of bodies.  They all have their own glory.  Wasn't Lucifer made proud by his wisdom beauty?  He must of had a body to be beautiful.

 Ezekiel 28:12   Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

  Ezekiel 28:13   Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

[other one]

56 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Jesus is always equal to the Father.   Jesus is GOD.    Jesus is God the Son -  All 3 Divine Persons, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit,  are Co-Equal for all Eternity past and future.

You cannot diminish one Divine Person of the Trinity without diminishing God Himself.

 

 

then you do not believe the Bible for it states that exactly......    you and your church need to read the Bible.

Jesus told everyone that while he was here that the Father was much greater than he.......    then when he was resurrected and ascended he told the apostles that all power and authority had been given him, and if that is so then he obviously did not have that prior to being given it.

I have to go meet some friends for dinner and i will post the scripture for it later unless you really want to learn and research it yourself.

Just do a word search for footstool and you should find it close to that statement in Paul's writings.

[Sister]

When you say to me:

•  

Quote

 

• "Didn't you say the angels could do it?  But you say Christ cannot?"
•  

This demonstrates to me you entirely missed the point of what I said.

It's not a matter of "can or can't"  -  it's a matter of it's a non issue because there is nothing to change.

 

Christ's body does not "change into a human body" because your body doesn't change into what it already is.

 

therese

You said the angels appeared as men, but they were not really men, but angels. I agreed with your point, I thought this was very good. 

We know those two angels who ate with Lot were not men, but they only appeared as men, because the men of Sodom lusted after them, thinking they were men.

This is proof that spiritual creatures such as angels can change from spirit to flesh if God instructs them to do so for a purpose.

But now you are saying that I didn't understand you?  So what was your point then?  It seems as if that great point you brought up, no longer applies as you are now contradicting yourself. 

 

So we know angels can change form but we in the flesh cannot change into spirit at will.  The flesh material we are made of doesn't allow us to do this, because we have not yet died and received our change.  We are limited to the material world, being made out of a material substance for now, and not spirit. 

 

Might be a good idea to read these scriptures, they are for our edification;

 1 Corinthians 15:35   But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

  1 Corinthians 15:36   Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

  1 Corinthians 15:37   And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

  1 Corinthians 15:38   But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

  1 Corinthians 15:39   All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

  1 Corinthians 15:40   There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

  1 Corinthians 15:41   There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

  1 Corinthians 15:42   So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

  1 Corinthians 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

  1 Corinthians 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 1 Corinthians 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

  1 Corinthians 15:46   Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

  1 Corinthians 15:47   The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

  1 Corinthians 15:48   As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

  1 Corinthians 15:49   And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

  1 Corinthians 15:50   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Shar]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Jesus was a son of Adam (as well as a son of God). Jesus was not in heaven "always." The Word was, but the Word was not incarnated before Jesus was born. Therefore this statement of yours is based upon a false premise.

If Jesus had such power from eternity, then the Psalm would not say,

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

Hmm.  I will have to agree with Littleflower on this one.  Jesus had the glory and oneness with God before the world began.  Remember, He emptied Himself of His former glory to take on the human form and live amongst us.  Phil.2:6  "Who, being in the very nature, God.......but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness......humbled Himself and became obedient to death."   Jesus did this to complete their plan of salvation from the beginning.

We see in John 17:5 that Jesus knew after His death he would be restored.    "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

Jesus was equal and powerful from the beginning.  The Father has HIm sit at HIs right hand because it is a position of power and authority.  Jesus has the name above all names and the authority over all.

 

[thereselittleflower]

19 minutes ago, Sister said:

When you say to me:

•  

therese

You said the angels appeared as men, but they were not really men, but angels. I agreed with your point, I thought this was very good. 

We know those two angels who ate with Lot were not men, but they only appeared as men, because the men of Sodom lusted after them, thinking they were men.

This is proof that spiritual creatures such as angels can change from spirit to flesh if God instructs them to do so for a purpose.

But now you are saying that I didn't understand you?  So what was your point then?  It seems as if that great point you brought up, no longer applies as you are now contradicting yourself. 

 

So we know angels can change form but we in the flesh cannot change into spirit at will.  The flesh material we are made of doesn't allow us to do this, because we have not yet died and received our change.  We are limited to the material world, being made out of a material substance for now, and not spirit. 

 

Might be a good idea to read these scriptures, they are for our edification;

 1 Corinthians 15:35   But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

  1 Corinthians 15:36   Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

  1 Corinthians 15:37   And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

  1 Corinthians 15:38   But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

  1 Corinthians 15:39   All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

  1 Corinthians 15:40   There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

  1 Corinthians 15:41   There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

  1 Corinthians 15:42   So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

  1 Corinthians 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

  1 Corinthians 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 1 Corinthians 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

  1 Corinthians 15:46   Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

  1 Corinthians 15:47   The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

  1 Corinthians 15:48   As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

  1 Corinthians 15:49   And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

  1 Corinthians 15:50   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

 

Sister, you're sidestepping the real issue here.

Christ's body is always human - it is ALWAYS a glorified human body.

Christ's body does not "change into a human body" because HIS  body doesn't change into what it already is.

 

His body does not change into a human body BECAUSE it is a HUMAN Body ALL THE TIME.

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

21 minutes ago, Shar said:

Hmm.  I will have to agree with Littleflower on this one.  Jesus had the glory and oneness with God before the world began.  Remember, He emptied Himself of His former glory to take on the human form and live amongst us.  Phil.2:6  "Who, being in the very nature, God.......but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness......humbled Himself and became obedient to death."   Jesus did this to complete their plan of salvation from the beginning.

We see in John 17:5 that Jesus knew after His death he would be restored.    "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

Jesus was equal and powerful from the beginning.  The Father has HIm sit at HIs right hand because it is a position of power and authority.  Jesus has the name above all names and the authority over all.

 

Smelling salts all around for everyone today!

 

 

[Sister]

15 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

Sister, you're sidestepping the real issue here.

Christ's body is always human - it is ALWAYS a glorified human body.

Christ's body does not "change into a human body" because HIS  body doesn't change into what it already is.

 

His body does not change into a human body BECAUSE it is a HUMAN Body ALL THE TIME.

 

 

 

therese

1 Corinthians 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Being "raised" here mean's being woken up from the dead.  We don't get woken up, then wander around waiting for our change. It comes instantly, that change, in a twinkling of an eye.