Israel's 1st gathering of 1948

[Serving]

17 hours ago, Davida said:

Serving,  your post on this subject seems unbalanced and what seems absent is the ever present eternal Love of GOD Almighty for the Jews and Israel. Is there an Anti-Semitic tone here?  I hope this is not true because what I have come to understand is GOD is faithful and LOVES whom HE has chosen. GOD LOVES and blesses the Jewish people and Watches over and Protects ISRAEL. His eyes are always upon Israel.

It is Satan that continuously is seeking to destroy the Jews and Israel and the Christians for that matter.

Psalm 121

" I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

² My help cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.

³ He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

⁴ Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

⁵ The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand.

⁶ The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

⁷ The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

⁸ The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. "Amen

 

This is a message of punishment from God Himself against a rebellious Israel with mercy and righteousness being the end result to those whom He decides who lives, and those of Israel whom He decides will not, just as it has always been ..

The message itself, be they Israel or any other nation makes no difference to me (since ALL nations WILL be punished .. 'mine' included), but these prophecies CONCERN Israel itself in this case, so concentrate on the prophecies end result for Israel .. mercy and acceptance .. that is the "balance" you overlooked ..  this is a prophecy of judgment, I am not quoting warm & fuzzy here, but cold hard reality with a happy ending .. like giving birth .. pain comes before joy.

Anyways, my whole point of this post is to show that Israel WILL NOT be at PEACE or REST (per the Gog & Magog subject) UNTIL the PRINCE OF PEACE Himself comes .. this post is related to Gog & Magog NOT attacking Israel at all until AFTER the millennium which is ALSO reflected in the CONDITIONS and TIMING of the TWO gatherings of Israel, two gatherings of Israel from AFTER the 70ad generation.

So please concentrate on that question I asked in the OP ..

Do YOU see Gog & Magog attacking before the millennium being reflected in the two gatherings of Israel or not?

Yes/No?

PS : If you were not aware of the 2 gatherings of Israel, then please take note when you read the Old Testament's prophecies this day forward and you should begin to become aware of them much more easily now .. the CONDITIONS are the dead give away to guide us through the discerning of the TWO gatherings and their reasons.

And this is what you should notice :

God brings the 1st gathering of a rebellious Israel He is NOT happy with into the land before the time of WRATH comes .. OPPOSED TO .. the 2nd gathering, who, right at the very start mind you, is gathered in JOY and ACCEPTANCE by God, and gathered AFTER Christ returns at that (right at the beginning of the millennium) .. which leaves NO ROOM for Gog & magog attacking a land of Israel at PEACE and REST (per Ezekiel) before the Prince of PEACE Himself comes .. Christ our Lord.

Serving.

[ARGOSY]

15 hours ago, tigger398 said:

Then what is 1948 prophecy. The jewish came back to Israel after hitler. Does the bible say they will come back twice.

Yes its TWICE.

Ezekiel 38 describes Israel resettled and at peace:    a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

THEN Ezekiel 39 refers to this time of peace:    I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob^[d] and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 

The first gathering they live in safety and are proven SHAMEFUL

The second gathering they are blessed and proven HOLY.

 

We are currently at the stage where Jews have been gathered from many nations to Israel , which had long been desolate.   However Israel has not yet entered into its time of shame and safety.  Israel will soon enter a time of shame and safety, and then will repent when the northern army attacks. At that time there will be the full gathering of Israel by God, currently we have a partial gathering of Israel by Man.

[WilliamL]

Without wanting to get into a whole long debate, suffice it to say that Aliyahs/ascents to the Holy Land by Jews first began in 1878-79, and there were a number of such Aliyahs between that one and the return that took place after WWII.

This is a complicated subject, because it goes back to the 7 Times prophecy of Leviticus 26, which 7 Times = 2520 360-day years. The Kingdom of Judah was taken captive and otherwise expelled from the Holy Land over a period of more than a century, beginning in 606 BC, when Nebuchadnezzar first carried off Daniel and other select Jews to Babylon.

2520 sacred/360-day years from 606 BC comes to 1878-79 AD, when the Jews then began to return a bit at a time.

[Refined]

23 hours ago, Davida said:

Tigger it is not a one time event.   The Jews are returning to Israel since 1948 since the nation of Israel was formed. God will continue to draw HIS people back to the Nation of Israel. They were scattered and now they are returning and form the Nation of Israel.  

The nation of Israel has never ceased to exist.  It has been in diaspora for millennia, but it has certainly never ceased to exist.  Some of the nation of Israel lives in the Holy Land, some of it lives in Russia, much of it in the United States, others in France, Germany even, Spain, etc.  The nation of Israel, biblical speaking, is not the country that "came into existence" in 1948, it is the offspring of Jacob strewn throughout the world, including a number of people who are probably not even overly aware of the fact.  There are plans the Lord still has left to perform through the nation of Israel, but that doesn't necessitate the existence of the Modern State of Israel located currently in the middle east.  It may however include some of the geography.  The Modern nation of Israel is the product of political Zionism, which although it has the name zion in it, is completely antithetical to the Zion of scripture.  

Hope you have a blessed day,

Travis

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Davida said:

According to Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1:4, the land God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (south to north) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (west to east).

A common interpretation, but not quite accurate. The Euphrates border refers to the one on the north in the old kingdom of Hamath; not the east in Babylonia/Assyria:

Ezek. 47:15 “This shall be the border of the land on the north: from the Great Sea, by the road to Hethlon, as one goes to Zedad, 16 Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim (which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath), to Hazar Hatticon (which is on the border of Hauran).

The border on the east encompasses no further than the areas of Damascus and Gilead:

47:18 “On the east side you shall mark out the border from between Hauran and Damascus, and between Gilead and the land of Israel, along the Jordan, and along the eastern side of the sea. This is the east side.

The border on the south goes only to the Wadi/Brook/River of Egypt, not the Nile River itself. There is dispute about which waterway this was; some say the one roughly mid-Sinai, others where the Suez Canal now is.

47:19 “The south side, toward the South/Negev, shall be from Tamar to the waters of Meribah by Kadesh, along the brook to the Great Sea. This is the south side, toward the South.

[Serving]

It is the millennium where the PROMISE to Abraham concerning the WHOLE land God promised Israel will for the first time in history be fulfilled.

Israel's land mass will actually be bigger than India, and almost as big as the USA.

Israel's borders will be 2414 km square .. that's 1500 miles square .. that is the PROMISED land's borders waiting for millennial fulfilment where ALL of (accepted) Israel will be at REST and ruled over by the resurrected saints, all of them under Christ.

Notice the borders also go 2414 km straight UP?

That's the edge of space .. WHY?

Because ONLY SATAN himself is locked up during the millennium and NOT his fallen angels .. those fallen angels will still be on the earth .. that is WHY God has the kingdom "no fly zone" reaching up to space, so no prying eyes from fallen angels can have a looksee.

Now these kingdom borders are also STRONG EVIDENCE that there are still OUTSIDERS alive (flesh) during the millennium because ONLY when ALL THE WORLD is ONE will there be NO BORDERS on earth .. and not before.

Praise His Name.  

[Last Daze]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 0:34 PM, tigger398 said:

Then what is 1948 prophecy. The jewish came back to Israel after hitler. Does the bible say they will come back twice.

As I see it, the U.N. created the state of Israel by resolution in 1948.  The gathering of Israelis back to the state is on-going.

[Esther4:14]

On 2/17/2016 at 9:42 PM, Serving said:

This is what Israel has been preserved for .. for PUNISHMENT, but a REMNANT of this REBELLIOUS house will be spared to learn of Christ AFTER He returns .. meaning .. they remain FLESH whereas Christ's saints are all changed into SPIRIT and rule over these Israelites.

 

 

 

Hi Serving,

I agree with just about everything you said except this part right here.  I think that it still represents the separation of Jew and Gentile that no longer exists in Christ.  In the Millennium, no one is going to rule over anyone as the parable of the workers in the vineyard shows.  The one who were hired last were given equal wages (Matthew 20:1-16). 

So the book of Revelation confirms when it says that those who were martyred will reign with Christ with the ones who refuse the mark of the beast (Revelation 20:4-6).  So, "the last will be first, and the first will be last" (Matthew 20:16). 

No one will rule over anyone without in punishment, but because they are rewarded with authority, this is how they will rule over others. 

So, the saints will not rule over Jews because they come to repentance in the last hour; however, I do believe that most people don't realize that how they are misinterpreting the prophecy concerning Israel is how they will end up being deceived.  I do not think most of the church realizes how easily they could be deceived if the current state of Israel without Christ were to be victorious in some way no matter how you were to argue that the struggle in regaining a state of Israel so starkly contrasts the sequence of events when the wall of Jericho fell that it should raise a red flag for at least a few people who have read the Bible. 

My children have been in Christian school since kindergarten.  It has been one way that I feel I have been able to protect them from the things I learned growing up.  I want them to know the whole story, that includes Christ, not just the story that I learned.  So, for homework the other day we talked about the wall of Jericho and I explained to my son in the best way for him to understand because he likes video games, that in a lot of boy video games there is a lot about war and strategy and weapons, etc.  I told him to picture winning a war without one weapon, without one strategy, just nothing like anything he has seen in examples that he is unfortunately familiar with.  Nothing like this.  They walked around the city without speaking.  Then the trumpet sounded and the wall fell.  Done.  That is how it should be. 

But, it is hard for people to understand that this is not what is happening because they see Jews and then they see Jews who many people don't think of as a Jew like Henry Kissinger, and it is people like this who want Israel the same way that the people wanted to go back after doubting that He would defeat their enemies (Numbers 14:39-45). 

I know many people don't realize this because as they used to tell me, "loose lips sink ships," and you cannot depend on a mass population to keep this kind of strategy a secret. 

It is unfortunate that people don't see the strategy or how the enemy can study them to deceive them either.  Picture it, if you were the Devil and the church was growing and growing and doing good things for others and helping people and ending oppression through Christ, how would you go about deceiving them except with a Jew who does not believe Christ is the Messiah.  Wouldn't that be the best way to deceive a Christian.  I am continually frustrated with comments about how someone is going to make a agreement with Israel when Israel is constantly trying to make an agreement with someone else that is rejected.  But, the Christian who genuinely wants the Jew to be saved refuses to see this, and yet whether they are Jew or Gentile in origin, they are being taken advantage of because of this desire.  Because they want to help people come to Christ.  People like Henry Kissinger need to establish a strategy that will put them on the top of the pyramid that cannot exist without a Christian because 2000 years since the crucifixion, people are still testifying that He lives they way they did when they first learned He was resurrected.  You cannot have a New World Order without considering this, which just makes every plan that people have about Islam or this or that ridiculous.  The Devil does need to deceive the Christian for the son of perdition to be revealed and he can only do that with a state of Israel and spectacle that prophecy is being fulfilled when the fulfillment of prophecy and the restoration of Israel will include Jew and Gentile-and repentance.  This is how the wall of Jericho will effortlessly fall again-with Christ and there is no longer Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:28), which has nothing to do Henry Kissinger book that reads like Karl Marx's communist manifesto.  They both make it seem that their observations and they way these observations lend themselves to future conclusions just make sense-probably because Marx was a Jew, believed he was a Jew first not a communist, and socialized with people like Henry Kissinger even though this would not be out in the open because both of them know they can't have the general public know that deep down they see themselves not as a Jew, but of a high spiritual rank that legitimizes their supremacy.  This is what the state of Israel will accomplish for them both.  Some people may be innocent of this, but their innocence is not evidence that this is not true about others.   

Unfortunately, for the sake of Roman 11:25-27 people are presently ignoring these great deceptions and injustices that are caused for the sake of a few egos, because they are convincing themselves that all Israel is to be saved through the creation of Israel.  In my opinion, losing anyone to hardness over the past 2000 years has not been to anyone's benefit.  If the Gospel was to provide for those who grieve in Zion (Isaiah 61:3), Paul asserting that God still planned to save Jews who were actively persecuting them because of hardness of heart, was only to turn their attention away from the present tribulation created and expect salvation for their present enemy because it is hard to love a enemy.  After 2000 years of people who call themselves Jews and refuse Christ, I think God has a whole different definition for what all Israel being saved means from what a modern disciple of Zionism thinks it means. 

Personally, I think when Paul says all Israel will be saved means that everyone who the Father gives to the Son will be saved (John 6:65).  This will be all Israel, or everyone who will be present in the New Jerusalem.  It just clearly does not mean what people think it does, and I just don't think that people realize what some people who call themselves Jews say when other people aren't around.  The people I know will not be part of this I guarantee you.  I know I have to accept this the way Christ accepted He would go to the cross.  It is not something that I want, but it is not my will that matters. 

It is also like how statistics show that the older a person gets, the less likely they are to accept Christ.  Not that they won't, but it was a long time ago that I learned that the conversion rate for the age 60 was like 10%.  That is not an exact statistic.  It has been a long time.  But, the older a person gets and the more they commit themselves to fall teachings, the less likely it is for them to repent of them because everyone struggles with pride.  It is pride, that would make it hard for any one of us here to repent of believing Islam at whatever age you are.  This is the same for the Jew today who thinks he is regaining Israel without having to accept Christ.  It will be rare for someone like this to repent.  I don't expect some people I know to do this, which is why I refuse to have contact with them, and why I cannot accept the idealistic perspective towards the present creation of Israel. 

However, like I said, Christ has removed the separation of Jew and Gentile, male and female, slave and free, so the ones who will rule during the Millennial will be according to Revelation 20.  There are not two inheritances.  The Jews who repent will not get a backstage pass while the rest of the church waits for the New Jerusalem.  He will decide who reigns with Him for the Millennium, and everyone will enjoy the New Jerusalem.  

Peace.   

[Serving]

On Friday, 11 March 2016 at 6:20 PM, Esther4:14 said:

Hi Serving,

I agree with just about everything you said except this part right here.  I think that it still represents the separation of Jew and Gentile that no longer exists in Christ.  In the Millennium, no one is going to rule over anyone as the parable of the workers in the vineyard shows.  The one who were hired last were given equal wages (Matthew 20:1-16).

So the book of Revelation confirms when it says that those who were martyred will reign with Christ with the ones who refuse the mark of the beast (Revelation 20:4-6).  So, "the last will be first, and the first will be last" (Matthew 20:16).

No one will rule over anyone without in punishment, but because they are rewarded with authority, this is how they will rule over others.

So, the saints will not rule over Jews because they come to repentance in the last hour; however, I do believe that most people don't realize that how they are misinterpreting the prophecy concerning Israel is how they will end up being deceived.  I do not think most of the church realizes how easily they could be deceived if the current state of Israel without Christ were to be victorious in some way no matter how you were to argue that the struggle in regaining a state of Israel so starkly contrasts the sequence of events when the wall of Jericho fell that it should raise a red flag for at least a few people who have read the Bible.

Hi Esther,

Don't look at it as a separation, but as order .. and God is a God of order, and God does indeed have a hierarchical system as scriptures reveal .. not only for the angels, Cherabim, Seraphim, Chief Princes etc but for the Saints in Christ too .. 1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues ..

Esther, order (ranking) does not "separate",  no, it strengthens .. order is an act of unifying , otherwise armies would never practice it, neither governments, neither sports teams etc etc etc .. no, order is unifying by nature, it is just our imperfect world and it's leaders who give order (ranking) a bad name .. but God's "rulers" are not like the worlds rulers, they are opposite .. they are just and noble and humble and Holy.   

Here is the order of rank during the millennium ..

1st) the resurrected saints as Kings & Priests

over the

2nd) Human Israelites .. who will be Ministers themselves

ruling ver the

3rd) Surviving Gentiles who likewise will learn of Christ during the Millennium.

That is the order God has planned .. again, order is not division of "oneness", but a system of "oneness".

Serving.

 

[Serving]

On Friday, 11 March 2016 at 6:20 PM, Esther4:14 said:

CONTINUED >>

My children have been in Christian school since kindergarten.  It has been one way that I feel I have been able to protect them from the things I learned growing up.  I want them to know the whole story, that includes Christ, not just the story that I learned.  So, for homework the other day we talked about the wall of Jericho and I explained to my son in the best way for him to understand because he likes video games, that in a lot of boy video games there is a lot about war and strategy and weapons, etc.  I told him to picture winning a war without one weapon, without one strategy, just nothing like anything he has seen in examples that he is unfortunately familiar with.  Nothing like this.  They walked around the city without speaking.  Then the trumpet sounded and the wall fell.  Done.  That is how it should be.

But, it is hard for people to understand that this is not what is happening because they see Jews and then they see Jews who many people don't think of as a Jew like Henry Kissinger, and it is people like this who want Israel the same way that the people wanted to go back after doubting that He would defeat their enemies (Numbers 14:39-45).

I know many people don't realize this because as they used to tell me, "loose lips sink ships," and you cannot depend on a mass population to keep this kind of strategy a secret.

It is unfortunate that people don't see the strategy or how the enemy can study them to deceive them either.  Picture it, if you were the Devil and the church was growing and growing and doing good things for others and helping people and ending oppression through Christ, how would you go about deceiving them except with a Jew who does not believe Christ is the Messiah.  Wouldn't that be the best way to deceive a Christian.  I am continually frustrated with comments about how someone is going to make a agreement with Israel when Israel is constantly trying to make an agreement with someone else that is rejected.  But, the Christian who genuinely wants the Jew to be saved refuses to see this, and yet whether they are Jew or Gentile in origin, they are being taken advantage of because of this desire.  Because they want to help people come to Christ.  People like Henry Kissinger need to establish a strategy that will put them on the top of the pyramid that cannot exist without a Christian because 2000 years since the crucifixion, people are still testifying that He lives they way they did when they first learned He was resurrected.  You cannot have a New World Order without considering this, which just makes every plan that people have about Islam or this or that ridiculous.  The Devil does need to deceive the Christian for the son of perdition to be revealed and he can only do that with a state of Israel and spectacle that prophecy is being fulfilled when the fulfillment of prophecy and the restoration of Israel will include Jew and Gentile-and repentance.  This is how the wall of Jericho will effortlessly fall again-with Christ and there is no longer Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:28), which has nothing to do Henry Kissinger book that reads like Karl Marx's communist manifesto.  They both make it seem that their observations and they way these observations lend themselves to future conclusions just make sense-probably because Marx was a Jew, believed he was a Jew first not a communist, and socialized with people like Henry Kissinger even though this would not be out in the open because both of them know they can't have the general public know that deep down they see themselves not as a Jew, but of a high spiritual rank that legitimizes their supremacy.  This is what the state of Israel will accomplish for them both.  Some people may be innocent of this, but their innocence is not evidence that this is not true about others.

Unfortunately, for the sake of Roman 11:25-27 people are presently ignoring these great deceptions and injustices that are caused for the sake of a few egos, because they are convincing themselves that all Israel is to be saved through the creation of Israel.  In my opinion, losing anyone to hardness over the past 2000 years has not been to anyone's benefit.  If the Gospel was to provide for those who grieve in Zion (Isaiah 61:3), Paul asserting that God still planned to save Jews who were actively persecuting them because of hardness of heart, was only to turn their attention away from the present tribulation created and expect salvation for their present enemy because it is hard to love a enemy.  After 2000 years of people who call themselves Jews and refuse Christ, I think God has a whole different definition for what all Israel being saved means from what a modern disciple of Zionism thinks it means.

Personally, I think when Paul says all Israel will be saved means that everyone who the Father gives to the Son will be saved (John 6:65).  This will be all Israel, or everyone who will be present in the New Jerusalem.  It just clearly does not mean what people think it does, and I just don't think that people realize what some people who call themselves Jews say when other people aren't around.  The people I know will not be part of this I guarantee you.  I know I have to accept this the way Christ accepted He would go to the cross.  It is not something that I want, but it is not my will that matters.

It is also like how statistics show that the older a person gets, the less likely they are to accept Christ.  Not that they won't, but it was a long time ago that I learned that the conversion rate for the age 60 was like 10%.  That is not an exact statistic.  It has been a long time.  But, the older a person gets and the more they commit themselves to fall teachings, the less likely it is for them to repent of them because everyone struggles with pride.  It is pride, that would make it hard for any one of us here to repent of believing Islam at whatever age you are.  This is the same for the Jew today who thinks he is regaining Israel without having to accept Christ.  It will be rare for someone like this to repent.  I don't expect some people I know to do this, which is why I refuse to have contact with them, and why I cannot accept the idealistic perspective towards the present creation of Israel.

However, like I said, Christ has removed the separation of Jew and Gentile, male and female, slave and free, so the ones who will rule during the Millennial will be according to Revelation 20.  There are not two inheritances.  The Jews who repent will not get a backstage pass while the rest of the church waits for the New Jerusalem.  He will decide who reigns with Him for the Millennium, and everyone will enjoy the New Jerusalem.

Peace.

Hi Again Esther,

Indeed there is no separation of Jew & Gentile for those IN Christ .. but my post was about those who are NOT in Christ .. not YET anyway .. those who will find mercy at the 2nd coming according to THAT election of grace for the very last group in who the fulfilment of God's PROMISES to the FATHERS will be FULFILLED .. it is the LAST BASKET of "good figs" for those who are UNDER the OLD LAW .. THAT remnant .. and these will be taught DURING the millennium, even though they did REALISE at the VERY END (at the 2nd coming period) that Christ is indeed the Lord, but there is no TIME for learning in those distressing days to come, for those days are days of GROSS DARKNESS and GLOOMINESS .. this group will realise Christ is Lord yes, and be SPARED too according to election .. but they will not learn of Him till the kingdom is established.

It is only during the millennium they will learn so do not confuse them as being IN Christ at the 2nd coming .. they will be eventually, yes, but only AFTER the coming and during the millennial reign.

As for the "treaty" Israel enters into, you will find it in Isaiah 28:14-29 .. and it is not like mainstream Christianity thinks it is, there is NO 7 year peace treaty mentioned, they have erroneously ASSUMED this through lack of understanding .. there will be however a deceptive treaty that Israel's leaders will enter into only to be double crossed and taken captive by the invaders as Isaiah explains .. it is nothing like what all the churches and book writers have been saying at all, just read Isaiah and see for yourself.

I agree totally with your understanding of what it means when it is said, "All of Israel will be saved" .. to me that is only logical and "real world" and exactly what is to be expected in light of the message of the New Testament .. the "bad figs" of Israel will NOT be saved, thus what you said is logical and "real world" scripturally speaking.

Serving.