fulfilled prophecy Past events in Revelation?

[Jonah'sJourney]

First of all, this question has to do with the futurist interpretation of Revelation, not the preterist or historicist views, so please do not respond according to how those other views interpret the book.

Although futurists tend to see the book of Revelation as largely concerning future events, some passages are still often seen as pertaining to past events or issues, such as chapters 1-3 (Christ speaking to John, and the spiritual condition of the seven historical churches themselves), or 12:1-5 (pertaining to the birth/ascension of Christ).

My question is, other than those two places, where else does the book of Revelation refer to (or pertain to) past events or occurrences (i.e, things that had/have already happened). Put your thinking caps on

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Jonah'sJourney said:

My question is, other than those two places, where else does the book of Revelation refer to (or pertain to) past events or occurrences (i.e, things that had/have already happened). Put your thinking caps on

The first five seals have already been opened as you will note by comparing them with Matthew 24, where they are called "the beginning of sorrows".

[Jonah'sJourney]

Ok, thanks Ezra. I'm not sure that's a common futurist position, but any input is appreciated! Anyone else?

[tigger398]

Isn't revelation tribulation. If so how can they be opened.

[WilliamL]

13 hours ago, Jonah'sJourney said:

Although futurists tend to see the book of Revelation as largely concerning future events, some passages are still often seen as pertaining to past events or issues, such as ... 12:1-5 (pertaining to the birth/ascension of Christ).

Rev. 1:19 “Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after this [future].

20 “The mystery of the seven stars which you saw [past] in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw [past] are the seven churches.

2:1 ...To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, These things says He... 2 I know your works... [present, all throughout chapters 2-3]

4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after these things.”  [future, all throughout the remaining chapters of Revelation, including chapter 12]

13 hours ago, Jonah'sJourney said:

My question is, other than those two places, where else does the book of Revelation refer to (or pertain to) past events or occurrences (i.e, things that had/have already happened). Put your thinking caps on.

As far as ultimate fulfillments of events, and not merely types and shadows of them, no where, with the possible exception of chapters 4-5. We cannot know exactly when they occur, because they do not involve earthly events.

The only exceptions are those parts of Revelation that speak of the heavenly throne and temple and angelic beings, which have existed from before the time that Adam was created.

[Reinitin]

33 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Rev. 1:19 “Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after this [future].

20 “The mystery of the seven stars which you saw [past] in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw [past] are the seven churches.

2:1 ...To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, These things says He... 2 I know your works... [present, all throughout chapters 2-3]

4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after these things.”  [future, all throughout the remaining chapters of Revelation, including chapter 12]

As far as ultimate fulfillments of events, and not merely types and shadows of them, no where, with the possible exception of chapters 4-5. We cannot know exactly when they occur, because they do not involve earthly events.

The only exceptions are those parts of Revelation that speak of the heavenly throne and temple and angelic beings, which have existed from before the time that Adam was created.

You know Romes persecution of Israel was 3.5 years? 66ad to 70 ad? I'm not a preterist by any means but I know the Lord's character and that he would give encouragement, instruction and insight to the church. The Lord warns His people of judgment and gives accurate time frames every where else in the bible. If  we are told by the Lord it is coming quickly and is at hand how can we think thousand of years later it hasn't happened? I think we can take God at His word. quickly means quickly and at hand means its happening as we speak. Every where else in the bible that word for quickly is used It was for something actually happening. I think it all comes down to when did John take that message to the church? The trail to answer that question has been cloaked with information that is conflicting. So its left to who's report will you believe. The church was persecuted by Rome horrible under Nero 64 ad. Rome persecuted Christians and huge numbers of christians were martyred till 313 ad. When we face judgment he will in faithfulness send us timely encouragement,instruction and warnings.  

[WilliamL]

12 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

You know Romes persecution of Israel was 3.5 years? 66ad to 70 ad?

The "Jewish War" lasted until the fall of Masada on the Passover in 73 AD. But that time has nothing to do with the Book of the Revelation, so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Reinitin]

You know Romes persecution of Israel was 3.5 years? 66ad to 70 ad? I'm not a preterist by any means but I know the Lord's character and that he would give encouragement, instruction and insight to the church. The Lord warns His people of judgment and gives accurate time frames every where else in the bible. If  we are told by the Lord it is coming quickly and is at hand how can we think thousand of years later it hasn't happened? I think we can take God at His word. quickly means quickly and at hand means its happening as we speak. Every where else in the bible that word for quickly is used It was for something actually happening. I think it all comes down to when did John take that message to the church? The trail to answer that question has been cloaked with information that is conflicting. So its left to who's report will you believe. The church was persecuted by Rome horrible under Nero 64 ad. Rome persecuted Christians and huge numbers of christians were martyred till 313 ad. When we face judgment he will in faithfulness send us timely encouragement,instruction and warnings.  

[MorningGlory]

Is it my imagination or was the exact same commentary posted TWICE in response to different posts?

[WilliamL]

37 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

If  we are told by the Lord it is coming quickly and is at hand how can we think thousand of years later it hasn't happened? I think we can take God at His word. quickly means quickly...

The Greek word tachu can be interpreted as quickly/speedily/suddenly. It does not necessarily mean imminently. In the context of the Lord's Coming, it means that when he does come, he won't lollygag around. (For this and other reasons, I am a "short Tribber." I expect the Trib to be no more than weeks to months, not years.)

The first century Church (including Paul, Peter, James, and John) all expected the Lord's coming to be in their day. But the Lord never told them that; what he did tell them is "It is not for you to know the times or season..." Acts 1:7 Peter finally figured it out just before he was martyred, saying,

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.