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Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

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Hi Sab

7 hours ago, Sab said:

I didn't  realise you wanted me to. You've quoted matthew 13 together with Rev 14 and 18. Matthew 13 is about the final harvest as is Rev 14:11.

I was showing you;

Matthew 13:30   Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Good and evil have to come to maturity before it is cut down.  The reapers will do the harvest.  One lot will be bundled to one side, reserved for the lake of fire, and the other lot bundled to the other side, reserved for salvation.  There is a separation.

The Mark of the Beast will split the world into two.  Those who are for the beast and those that are against.  Many Christians will also be deceived, so this is the decider, whether or not they will come out of Babylon...ie...give up all their worldly possessions and even their life, because they won't be able to buy food without the mark, or work, ...or do anything under the system.  So a big test is coming, that will not only divide the world, but also divide the Christian land.  Many Christians have been feeding on false doctrines, therefore not prepared, and because of this, they will be seduced,...by any lie that justifies them taking the Mark of the Beast.  ie...."God wouldn't want our children to die"....or "he doesn't want us to suffer,.he's a loving God"...things like that....and he's another one, "The Mark of the Beast is Sunday Worship"......

 

 Matthew 13:39   The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The reapers are the angels.  There are 7 angels coming to reap.  These are the 7 angels with the 7 plagues.  They blow the trumpet, then pour out the vials onto the children of this wicked kingdom..  All these are reserved for the lake of fire which will take place after the 1000 yrs when the earth is melted and renewed, but judgement starts now,...when the first angel sounds till all seven have sounded.

 

 Revelation 14:15   And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Here is when the reaping will take place, and who does the reaping? ...the 7 angels.  You said that the angels have already sounded and we are just waiting for the last one?  You see this as history?  I say it can't be history, because the first angel sounds after the Mark of the Beast is issued, and this has not happened yet because the False Prophet has not come.  When he comes, you will know, because you and me and every living Christian on this earth will be forced into a corner to decide if we are going to accept this Mark or not so that we can eat.

 

 

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You assume that Mystery  Babylon has not been judged at all and will not be judged until the very end.

That's right.  She has not been judged yet.  Why?  Because evil has to grow to the full. It is going to get a lot worse Sab before it gets better.

 

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Who do you think mystery Babylon is?

She's not any particular nation, but is the whole world of trade and commerce.  The world of Materialism, and the love of it.

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I believe mystery Babylon is Constantinople and that she has been judged several times already for her role in the corruption of the gospel. Part of that judgement was her being looted and burned in 1204 by the 4th crusade. She also fell to the Turks in 1453. Her final judgement is still pending. At that point she will utterly fall - into the Bosphorus.

Read Rev 18.  She's the whole world of trade.  All the MERCHANTS have gotten rich of her.

If we desire anything nice in this world, she can provide.

She has not been judged yet, because she is still operating.

Sab, nations & kingdoms have been brought up and taken down in the past, I don't deny, but they still operate today.  You cannot say that Mystery Babylon is Rome, or the USA, or Israel etc, because she's the whole world combined,...the kingdom of the world, that system.  Satan's kingdom.

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9 hours ago, Sister said:

nations & kingdoms have been brought up and taken down in the past, I don't deny, but they still operate today.  You cannot say that Mystery Babylon is Rome, or the USA, or Israel etc, because she's the whole world combined,...the kingdom of the world, that system.  Satan's kingdom.

Rev 14:8 Babylon is fallen, is fallen. That great city because she made all nations drink the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

(The city that corrupted the gospel by mixing the worship of God with idolatry. Look up 2nd council of Nicaea)

Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts...

(Look at any aerial map of Istanbul. This is clearly visible)

Rev 17:18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city that reigns over the kings of the earth.

(As the capital of the Roman empire Constantinople eclipsed Rome)

Rev 18:10 Alas, alas, that great city, Babylon, that mighty city. For in one hour your judgment has come. 

(This was the reaction of the pope and western Europe when they heard that the Turks had captured Constantinople in 1453)

Rev 18:16 Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple and scarlet and adorned with precious stones and pearls.

(Fine linen is a reference to the saints - she was supposedly Christian. Purple and scarlet were only allowed to be worn by the imperial household. Gold and precious stones show her great wealth. Constantinople was the wealthiest city of tbe middle ages Rev 18:

Rev 18:18 (every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors and as many as trade on the sea) cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, "What is like this great city ." 19 they threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, "Alas, alas that great city in which all who ships on the sea became rich by her wealth.

(The Venetians in particular became wealthy through trade with Constantinople. World Book encyclopedia lists every item in rev 18:12-13 under Byzantine economy. Now about that list. Trade in ivory has been banned for decades so this points to a time in the past when it was not. Slavery is also not part of global trade these days. This was the reaction throughout Europe when they heard about the Turkish conquest of the great city)

Rev 18:21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city babylon shall be thrown down and shall not be found any more.

(Istanbul sits just 15 miles from the North Anatolian fault line. Seismologists predict that her getting dumped into the sea is inevitable. We read in the gospels that it would be better for those who offend a little one who trusts in Jesus to have a millstone tied around his neck and be cast into the sea. The damage that was done to the gospel when it became married to the state power cannot be measured. Idolatry became sanctioned by the church. Murder was sanctioned by the church. Anyone who did not worship idols was condemned as a heretic and punishment for heresy was death. Read some church history.

Babylon is called a city 9 times in the Book of Revelation. I think it's  safe to say Mystery Babylon is a city. Only one city fulfills all the descriptions given... Istanbul, Constantinople. Oh and here is the final irony. Rev 18:4 says "come out of her" Istanbul means "go into the city" The Turks heard "eis ten polis", enter the city and called her Istanbul.

Edited by Sab

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5 hours ago, Sab said:

Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts...

Hi Sab.

The King of Babylon is Satan.  This is his kingdom, and he's using the False Prophet to do his bidding.

Satan, with his hatred for the Jews, will choose Jerusalem to set up his own headquarters.  Out of all the places in the world, he wants that place only to rule from,...to Mock God and to take the place of God,.... because he sets up his temple there, .... and that's where his throne will be, so he will rule from here, using the Son of Perdition to do is bidding.

Daniel 11:45   And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

When a kingdom is taken over, the first place to be shaken up is the headquarters where they rule from or close to their vicinity.  Christ will dismantle this part first at his coming, and how he does it, is by splitting up the land into three parts by causing "a great earthquake"

  Revelation 16:17   And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

  Revelation 16:18   And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

  Revelation 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

You cannot refute that this dividing is caused by a great earthquake, so great, that this has not happened ever before since men were upon the earth?  We have not experienced anything like it Sab.

If we have been feeding on the Word of God Sab, and not men's books, we can connect the scriptures;

 Zechariah 14:4   And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

The mount of olives will be split into two, have will go to the east, and half to the west.  In the middle of that will be a great valley.  Then half of that remaining mountain will split again in two pushing it further towards with north, and the other half towards the south creating another valley. We end up with three parts.  Draw it out for yourself and you will see.  One mountain split into two, then half of that split again.  Three parts remaining.

When Christ comes he will land here on the Mount of Olives.  Christ is using himself as the "bait" luring all the armies to attack him.  The earthquake which splits the land up into three parts, provides a valley for the remnants of Israel to escape from.  Once the remnants have fled, the armies that have assembled in Megiddo pour in through this valley to attack Christ.  Christ will kill them all there in that one place and their blood will reach up to the horses bridle.

 

Jeremiah 7:32   Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
 

Jeremiah 31:40   And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

 

 

 Ezekiel 35:8   And I will fill his mountains with his slain men: in thy hills, and in thy valleys, and in all thy rivers, shall they fall that are slain with the sword.

  Ezekiel 35:9   I will make thee perpetual desolations, and thy cities shall not return: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

 

The remnants will escape;

Zechariah 14:5   And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

Please consider these scriptures and don't ignore.  They put the puzzle together and paint the true picture of what will be.  Many blame Rome for corrupting the scriptures, but it is our duty to rely on the Word of the Lord, for it is he that gives truth. These books claiming to show true revelation, are drawing us away from the scriptures to paint a false picture, because they are in contradiction to what the truth tells us.

 

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Sister,

I noticed that you completely ignored my point  that Babylon is called a city 9 times. So don't  hold your breath waiting forme to reply to any more of your comments.

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Sab

No need to get defensive. We are all labouring for the truth.

I agree that Babylon is a city, and as I explained, this great city is Satan's city which includes all the kingdoms of the world combined, not just one city.

I read everything you posted, but didn't quote yet, because you are using the great city that was divided into three parts as proof that it happened already.

On 9/17/2017 at 3:53 AM, Sab said:

Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts...

(Look at any aerial map of Istanbul. This is clearly visible)

Your proof is wrong, because the bible interprets itself.

 Revelation 16:16   And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

  Revelation 16:17   And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

  Revelation 16:18   And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

  Revelation 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

  Revelation 16:20   And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

  Revelation 16:21   And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

Armageddon has to happen first.

The seventh angel has to sound.

A great earthquake will split this city into three parts, which is when Christ returns and his feet touch the Mt of Olives (Zech 14:4).

Your timing of this has been pushed back into the past, yet the scripture says it's future for us, and happens at the 2nd coming. 

So, are you willing to take a look at this again with fresh eyes?

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I agree that Rev 16:17-21 are future.

You have contradicted yourself. In a post a couple of days ago you said mystery babylon is the whole world combined. That is error.

Ive looked at what youve posted and perhaps you're  convinced by your arguments but frankly I believe the entire futurist position which you're defending is nothing but speculative bunk.

Just a FYI. I won't  be answering any more of your comments. Don't flatter yourself that it's because I'm intimidated by your arguments. I really didnt join this forum to debate futurism. If you can't see what's wrong with it, ask the Lord to show you.

Edited by Sab

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9 hours ago, Sab said:

I agree that Rev 16:17-21 are future.

You have contradicted yourself. In a post a couple of days ago you said mystery babylon is the whole world combined. That is error.

Hi Sab

I said it on my last post also;

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I agree that Babylon is a city, and as I explained, this great city is Satan's city which includes all the kingdoms of the world combined, not just one city.

All the kingdoms of the world, and nations, and people small and great are dwelling in this city.  This city is the system of the world.  All the hustle and bustle of buying and selling.  The world of materialism.  Satan's woman, the harlot, is the one who is dangling the carrot in front of us all to lust after all these things she can provide, and not God,.... but she is just a metaphor.  The true owner of this kingdom is Satan, the true king of Babylon, and anyone that spiritually dwells in Babylon, and lusts after all the things that perish, belongs to his kingdom.  That's how I understand it.  You can also throw false religion in there also, all coming out of that same kingdom, but she mainly thrives on planting greed in our hearts to want all her nice things, and to obtain it, we have to work and slave for her.


 

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Just a FYI. I won't  be answering any more of your comments. Don't flatter yourself that it's because I'm intimidated by your arguments. I really didnt join this forum to debate futurism. If you can't see what's wrong with it, ask the Lord to show you.


 

If you we are feeding on the truth, ......not saying the history you quoted never happened, ....but saying if we are in "the word", and have the true foundation given by Christ,.... following the simple basic commandments which we build upon, ie "love one another as I have loved you", then he will add to us wisdom, understanding and knowledge bit by bit as an encouragement to keep seeking, but if we act proud, he will not feed us, and our fruits will not be his, and the enemy will come in to deceive.  Do you understand what I am saying here? 

 

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Ive looked at what youve posted and perhaps you're  convinced by your arguments but frankly I believe the entire futurist position which you're defending is nothing but speculative bunk.


 

I am not perfect, and I have made mistakes, and always ready to be corrected, but this labour of the truth depends on what the scriptures say,...a little here and a little there to connect all together and form the clear picture, and that is what I have given you, scripture that you claim is speculative bunk! Forget about my comments, but look at the scriptures, because it says exactly the opposite to what you are claiming and instead of speaking to me in this way, I would of appreciated if you could of replied to my reply in regards to this a little more and what your thoughts were on Zechariah 14:4;

Revelation 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

Zechariah 14:4   And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

..

But if you don't want to answer me, then that's fine.  I understand that you dont want to carry it on.  Put please leave in peace and not spite because the Lord is watching all of us and what we are doing in his field.

 

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