Gods law verses the Pharisees Talmud ?

[SINNERSAVED]

for if we are understanding the whole purpose that Jesus went and told the people to listen to the law given but do not do as they do , for they have placed a fence around the Law of God by man made traditions which keeps people from entering the kingdom of heaven , then Jesus was He saying to them vipers and hypocrites , you teach and preach a law but do not understand it and cause many to fall short, of God by the laws made in place and to over come the laws of God ?

in another discussion we talked about the law of God and Grace, and it was very interesting, but lets look at the law of God and His commandments , and then what the jewish people did to overwhelm the people to follow the Talmud, where it was so over bearing that it was enough to have Jesus argue and place them as wicked and evil people , and doing the things of men , over the things from God,

so even though we see that there is about 613 man ,made laws, we need to be able to separate and define what is from God and what is not , so the commandments  the ten and the two that all the prophets and laws hang on ?

 the dietary law, ? or clean and un clean , and then the soon to start up sacrifices , for the so called new temple, if Jesus was the once and for all sacrifice, then why are the jewish people trying to set up for a God they rejected and had killed by the romans at there own request,?

I did this topic for I see that many adds all these things together as a easy one fits all bundle and have not done there home work, so lets break it up and see what is of mans traditions and what is from God, and when we divide and see for our selves, many of you will see much more of this clear and simple, for the grace and the law of moses was confusing to many for they thing its all about, grace covering the law, but Gods word is sure and firm , and the rock that we stand on is solid and does not change, so what God has said we follow and what man has said, is not to be followed,

I am not re writing history or religion, I am stating that we need to know what we believe, and why , and not to take assumptions and speculation for the answer, we must follow scripture and see why Jesus said what He did for the Pharisees were the law readers of God,  but something went really wrong, and then Jesus is murdered, for clearing up and fulfilling the law , and bringing Grace to people were the law was unable to save souls by the blood, and to have power over the grave,     please correct me if I am wrong , thank you

blessings , and Grace to our God and savior who is able to save us , for we are lost wretched and filthy , and we are all in need of salvation, for we cannot save our selves ...amen

[simplejeff]

........ first, last >> what went wrong ??

4 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

so even though we see that there is about 613 man ,made laws, we need to be able to separate and define what is from God and what is not , so the commandments  the ten and the two that all the prophets and laws hang on ?

 

He Reveals to us or we don't know ((same as Peter knowing and recognizing Yeshua Messiah))

we don't ((as if by carnal means)) separate and define what is from God and what is not -- we can, do , and should TEST as HE SAYS, by HIS WORD, and be in continual prayer and HIS SPIRIT within us ((always what Yahweh reveals is in total and Perfect Harmony with all of HIS WORD - NEVER against, opposed, nor contradictory to HIS WORD))

5 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

for the grace and the law of moses was confusing to many for they thing its all about, grace covering the law, but Gods word is sure and firm , and the rock that we stand on is solid and does not change, so what God has said we follow and what man has said, is not to be followed,

He Reveals, and it is no longer confusing.  

Correct - we listen to Yahweh/Father/Abba and follow Yahshua wherever He goes;  not man's devices nor the devil's deceptions.

5 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

but something went really wrong,

'first' question above...

[SINNERSAVED]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

........ first, last >> what went wrong ??

He Reveals to us or we don't know ((same as Peter knowing and recognizing Yeshua Messiah))

we don't ((as if by carnal means)) separate and define what is from God and what is not -- we can, do , and should TEST as HE SAYS, by HIS WORD, and be in continual prayer and HIS SPIRIT within us ((always what Yahweh reveals is in total and Perfect Harmony with all of HIS WORD - NEVER against, opposed, nor contradictory to HIS WORD))

He Reveals, and it is no longer confusing.  

Correct - we listen to Yahweh/Father/Abba and follow Yahshua wherever He goes;  not man's devices nor the devil's deceptions.

'first' question above...

the what went wrong part , is that they killed the God they served, it was on them , but it was Gods plan to over come and be the sacrifice, and bring in salvation, the wrong  is on the people not understanding that Emmanuel ,was right in front of them,

but they wanted to get him out of the way , and God knew what they would do , and how it would come to light, blessings brother

[simplejeff]

6 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

the what went wrong part , is that they killed the God they served

Who said that went wrong ? ((maybe this is just different perspective))

Would it be better if they had not crucified the Messiah Savior Yeshua ? 

then none of us, anywhere, would be saved ?

[other one]

we don't always agree on things Jeff, but you are spot on here.

[Qnts2]

I just want to touch on one point. You have said that 'but something went really wrong, and then Jesus is murdered, '

Jesus could not have been murdered as no man could take His life, but Jesus laid down His life for the sheep. That is very important, as Jesus is God. No one committed deicide (killing God). It was God's desire and plan that Jesus die for sins.  

John 10:14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

¹⁵ As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

[SINNERSAVED]

7 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

I just want to touch on one point. You have said that 'but something went really wrong, and then Jesus is murdered, '

Jesus could not have been murdered as no man could take His life, but Jesus laid down His life for the sheep. That is very important, as Jesus is God. No one committed deicide (killing God). It was God's desire and plan that Jesus die for sins.  

John 10:14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

¹⁵ As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I totally agree,  I may have written it incorrectly, but I hope I made the answer , that God is in control , but the people would not see there wrong.and by there blindness , God followed through and gave us salvation,

thank you for pointing that out, you are correct, blessings to you and to Jeff, thank you

[Qnts2]

Ok, now doubling back.

In the NT, Jesus was called a Rabbi, and he was recognized by the Pharisees as having disciples, as Pharisees had disciples. That was unique among the Pharisees.

The thing which upset the Pharisees, and Sadducees most, was that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, and claimed to be God. A man claiming to be God was considered blasphemy in Judaism. For a comparison, imagine a man coming into this board and making claims that he is God. I am pretty sure that would cause a very pronounced reaction. So it was with the Pharisees. Actually, such a claim according to the law, would have resulted in the death penalty. But, if Jesus was the Messiah, all that He taught would have been from God as one of the roles of the Messiah was to be to teach the scriptures correctly.

[Reinitin]

14 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

for if we are understanding the whole purpose that Jesus went and told the people to listen to the law given but do not do as they do , for they have placed a fence around the Law of God by man made traditions which keeps people from entering the kingdom of heaven , then Jesus was He saying to them vipers and hypocrites , you teach and preach a law but do not understand it and cause many to fall short, of God by the laws made in place and to over come the laws of God ?

in another discussion we talked about the law of God and Grace, and it was very interesting, but lets look at the law of God and His commandments , and then what the jewish people did to overwhelm the people to follow the Talmud, where it was so over bearing that it was enough to have Jesus argue and place them as wicked and evil people , and doing the things of men , over the things from God,

so even though we see that there is about 613 man ,made laws, we need to be able to separate and define what is from God and what is not , so the commandments  the ten and the two that all the prophets and laws hang on ?

 the dietary law, ? or clean and un clean , and then the soon to start up sacrifices , for the so called new temple, if Jesus was the once and for all sacrifice, then why are the jewish people trying to set up for a God they rejected and had killed by the romans at there own request,?

I did this topic for I see that many adds all these things together as a easy one fits all bundle and have not done there home work, so lets break it up and see what is of mans traditions and what is from God, and when we divide and see for our selves, many of you will see much more of this clear and simple, for the grace and the law of moses was confusing to many for they thing its all about, grace covering the law, but Gods word is sure and firm , and the rock that we stand on is solid and does not change, so what God has said we follow and what man has said, is not to be followed,

I am not re writing history or religion, I am stating that we need to know what we believe, and why , and not to take assumptions and speculation for the answer, we must follow scripture and see why Jesus said what He did for the Pharisees were the law readers of God,  but something went really wrong, and then Jesus is murdered, for clearing up and fulfilling the law , and bringing Grace to people were the law was unable to save souls by the blood, and to have power over the grave,     please correct me if I am wrong , thank you

blessings , and Grace to our God and savior who is able to save us , for we are lost wretched and filthy , and we are all in need of salvation, for we cannot save our selves ...amen

I believe the Lord and His disciples were examples of and teachers of the principles of Gods Kingdoms. I believe they didn't give us words that we are to pic apart and make laws and rules with. They gave us the Words of God with the power to help us live as heavenly citizens in ungodly circumstances. Our lives are to be examples of His love, His Mercy, His kindness, His forgiveness, His Power, His Justice, His patience, His purity, His gentleness, His faithfulness ect. 

The flesh takes his word and makes rules and regulations to control and to usurp power for self. But, the Spirit of God hovers over us and receives the power of the God spoken Word to creates heavenly attributes is flesh vessels. It's not laws and rules to judge by or govern kingdoms. It is the spoken Word of God with the power to grow a new life within us.

When Peter was in the boat he said "Lord, if that is you command me to come to you. So when Jesus said "Peter come to me" the power to walk on water was provided for peter in obedience. No different then in the beginning when God spoke "Let there be light" . We hear "Love one another as I have loved you" Then Gods love and the power is present for those who hear and step out to obey.

Good to see you posting again Sinnersaved.

[SINNERSAVED]

thank you Reinitin, blessings and peace to you also ,

thank you for those great words of wisdom and spiritual beauty, it is awesome to see the people that over flow with the joy of the lord and is able to give love through your words, for the power of  God is great, and to know God is a awesome thing for us to grow and to live by , for we are told today , yesterday and later that God is love, and He showed agape, love by the cross that He endured for you and me and all that comes to Him in spirit and in truth , and there can be no one that can take that away from us, for it is the power and the spirit , of God that proclaims and cleanse us from the inside out, and washes us, and regenerates us , by the word, of God, for the scriptures are alive, and not like any other,

we are so blessed , and don't even take that time to thank  God, Yahweh, for all that He has done, keep the faith and stay focus on Jesus always, and for as the oil in the lamp , keeps the flame lit and shines the light, to the path of the straight and narrow,

we must endure until the end for this is a dark and fallen world and we are to stay on course, never given up , and never letting go, For God cares for you and everyone, and so He is the way the truth and the life, and only to Him do we serve..

blessings my sister