And I saw a City New Jerusalem.

[missmuffet]

7 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Thank you Bopeep & Kan for your comments. very interesting. However we need to think what is the need for actual walls when we have the whole earth to explore. If they were physical walls they would not keep out the unredeemed as they are in hell. So there is no need for physical walls. I see that the dimensions are symbolic of Christ`s work.

We know that the whole Bible is centred on Christ, past present & future. God the Father has revealed to us so much of His beloved Son. And when we come to the Book of Revelation, the unveiling of Christ as He is known in the heavenly realms, it is the culmination of all that has gone before. The climax to the Book of Revelation is our Lord. So I do not believe that the great climax is a city with physical walls. To say that is my inheritance, to me is to not understand Christ`s great work & the fulfilment of that in the New Jerusalem.

Walls are symbolic of protection, & who has protected His people, - Christ.

how has He, - through His sacrifice,

& what office does that represent in eternity- the priesthood.

 

Size of the `walls,` = 144 cubits. cubit -Heb. `ammah,` a bond, & `emah,` a multiple of 10, eg. 1,000.

The priesthood of Christ through 144, 000 bomded priests  of God. (Rev. 14: 1 - 5)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was in the words that I posted.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Bopeep,

Yes the writer said -  `The walls of the city, described as “great and high,” are an obvious symbol of exclusion of all that are unworthy to enter the city.` Glad you agree. However in seemed to me that the writer then went on to treat the walls as physical walls.

Sorry if I misinterpreted it.

Marilyn.

 

 

[HAZARD]

?

[Kan]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thank you Bopeep & Kan for your comments. ... I do not believe that the great climax is a city with physical walls. To say that is my inheritance, to me is to not understand Christ`s great work & the fulfilment of that in the New Jerusalem.

Walls are symbolic of protection, & who has protected His people, - Christ.

...

Marilyn.

The first reason for the walls is ascetics, as the Bible mentions the New Jerusalem as having beauty, even as a bride adorned etc. These are not walls to keep the robbers out. 

The details of heaven indicate different purposes for walls, for instance, the paradise/garden near the throne is within an enclosure measuring many miles long, and at least 30 miles wide. Then there is the walled off section in which the current temple lies, with a circumference of about 4 miles, and so on. Heaven has boundaries for beauty and order.

From what I have heard, the entrances into heaven itself or any of its internal enclosures/boundaries, generally have gates, or simply an archway. The main entrances, 12 in number, have three or four sets of pillars as you enter, with six rooms, three on either side. They are fairly wide, wider than the porch to Solomon's temple with the two pillars outside. The pillars are carved palm trees made of gold, with the leaves forming the top arch. The entrances are very tall, and so proportionately narrow. The archways in the entrance give way to a large reception hall or room inside the wall which opens up the view to heaven, as if there were no wall at all, so that the whole entrance with its archways and side rooms and reception area, take up the full breadth of the wall which is about 80 meters.

Each entrance is named after a tribe as well as a name of a disciple, and although all the 12 gates are of the same dimensions, each is different in gemstone composition and designs of specific carvings which represent the tribe and its designated land.

The people who live in heaven have a home there, built by Christ for them. They will also be able to build their own home or a second home, in the earth, on their own land as assigned by God.

Heaven is a physical place for physical beings, just like earth. The new earth is the old one restored. Real human beings live there, they eat real food and have a real life.

[HAZARD]

There will be no robbers or undesirables there and the gates will never be closed. Some people just don't read what's written before they give their own personal opinion's.

Coll. 1:16, For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The difference between Spiritual and heavenly things and physical things on the earth is substance. The things in Heaven are invisible to us now because Heaven is far away, just like things in England are invisible to us because of distance, unless of course one is actually in England.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Kan said:

The first reason for the walls is ascetics, as the Bible mentions the New Jerusalem as having beauty, even as a bride adorned etc. These are not walls to keep the robbers out. 

The details of heaven indicate different purposes for walls, for instance, the paradise/garden near the throne is within an enclosure measuring many miles long, and at least 30 miles wide. Then there is the walled off section in which the current temple lies, with a circumference of about 4 miles, and so on. Heaven has boundaries for beauty and order.

From what I have heard, the entrances into heaven itself or any of its internal enclosures/boundaries, generally have gates, or simply an archway. The main entrances, 12 in number, have three or four sets of pillars as you enter, with six rooms, three on either side. They are fairly wide, wider than the porch to Solomon's temple with the two pillars outside. The pillars are carved palm trees made of gold, with the leaves forming the top arch. The entrances are very tall, and so proportionately narrow. The archways in the entrance give way to a large reception hall or room inside the wall which opens up the view to heaven, as if there were no wall at all, so that the whole entrance with its archways and side rooms and reception area, take up the full breadth of the wall which is about 80 meters.

Each entrance is named after a tribe as well as a name of a disciple, and although all the 12 gates are of the same dimensions, each is different in gemstone composition and designs of specific carvings which represent the tribe and its designated land.

The people who live in heaven have a home there, built by Christ for them. They will also be able to build their own home or a second home, in the earth, on their own land as assigned by God.

Heaven is a physical place for physical beings, just like earth. The new earth is the old one restored. Real human beings live there, they eat real food and have a real life.

Hi Kan,

`Then I, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN...`(Rev. 21: 2)

So we read that the `city` comes down from God OUT of heaven. It is not heaven. That realm is beyond this created universe. It is the very throne of God. The Body of Christ, the called out ones from Israel & the Nations, a very special group, will have a glorified body like the Lord Jesus, which can go through dimensions, & is made for another realm not this earth. Those on the earth are the nations, a different group than us.

Marilyn. 

 

 

[HAZARD]

Life on Earth, when God brings His glorious City to the Earth and makes His Home here on Earth to be with mankind forever as the Scriptures teach, will be exactly as God had planned it to be if Adam and Eve had chosen not to sin.

People would have lived on forever and ever and no sin would have marred the creation at all. Satan would have been locked up then and there had Adam remained true and God's plan would have been carried out as He planned it to be carried out, only without sin.

[Kan]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Kan,

`Then I, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN...`(Rev. 21: 2)

So we read that the `city` comes down from God OUT of heaven. It is not heaven. That realm is beyond this created universe. It is the very throne of God. The Body of Christ, the called out ones from Israel & the Nations, a very special group, will have a glorified body like the Lord Jesus, which can go through dimensions, & is made for another realm not this earth. Those on the earth are the nations, a different group than us.

Marilyn. 

Does "out of heaven" only mean "down out of the place where God lives"? 

The city is not coming out of the earth, so it would have to come "out of heaven" from above. Paul speaks about the "Jerusalem above" in Galatians.

But seeing that the throne of God is in that city, we understand that heaven is the New Jerusalem. Jesus said, "In my Fathers house... are many mansions," and "I go to prepare a place for you (in heaven) so that where I am you may be also." John 14:2,3. "Abram looked for a city whose builder and maker is God" Hebrews 11. 

When the city comes down to earth, it is said "...the tabernacle (house) of God is with men." Rev 21:3.

Is heaven another 'realm' outside of this visible universe? Or has God made things to live with men?

God said to Moses, "Let them make me a sanctuary that I may dwell among them."

God wants to have His throne and house with us, or us in His house. We get both. We go to live with Jesus for a thousand years, and then the city moves to earth, and the earth is made new.

Horizon mentioned from the Bible, that the gates are always open, and the nations flow through them. If the city was a cube, it would not be called a mountain, and if it was floating above the earth, the nations would need some sort of travel to go up. 

The rivers which water the whole mountain of the Lord - as it is often called, begin from the top, and flow to the base. When the city settles on earth, and the earth is renewed, these waters will flow out of the city to water the entire earth. But if heaven is floating above the earth, all that water from the mountain would rain so heavily that the earth would experience horrendous storms, darkness and eroding cataclysms. Some of the rivers in the New Jerusalem are so big that you cannot see the opposite bank. They are wide enough for galleys, as one prophet intimated. Isaiah 33:21.

I'm not saying the city cannot be a cube or floating above the earth, etc, all things are possible, but when we reason things about heaven, we already have samples of paradise in what God has already made - the earth. After all, it was once the original paradise that God made for us. If God is going to "restore all things" it will be like the original, only more beautiful.

The old world before the flood, had one main land, surrounded by smaller islands and ocean. It was like a great island, except it was a huge continent. This land was filled with mountains, tremendous valleys and rivers, and the whole land was subtly built up to a height a few times higher than Mt Everest. It did not have any harsh environments or dangerous slopes, and was covered in rich vegetation even on the top.  

The new heaven and earth will have a very similar set up, except the mountain of the Lord becomes that "great and high mountain," "above all mountains" of the earth - as the Bible puts it. The new earth will have mountains much taller than Everest today, and these are nothing compared to the mountain of the Lord. Some of these high mountains on earth will be to the north and south of heaven, and overlook the lower parts of heaven. While to the east and west of heaven, the ocean has two great bays, which are lined with islands, atolls etc. 

The size of heaven and the way it is all laid out, is so wonderful and mysterious, that from space it looks like a huge jewel on a ring. A large golden gem on a spherical planet, where the atmosphere glows all around like a ring of fire in all hues of the rainbow.

Yet from the ground the height disappears and its pinnacle lowers over the horizon until you only see a distant golden peak.

The landscape is so vast, that heaven opens up into a huge country, which to all senses is level. The countryside of heaven has its own mountains, hills, valleys and plains, cities, villages, lakes, streams and rivers. Again, if you follow a river upstream, you end up at the center of heaven where there is a secluded area, and the garden of God and so on. You have traveled some 2,500 km up to the peak, without climbing up that height. But looking back while you go to the peak, the horizon of the earth below rises and becomes more spherical, until about 300 km from the top, the earth seems like another planet below, showing a large portion of the globe, as a fantastic blue backdrop.

[HAZARD]

The age of the New Jerusalem. It is called "New" (Greek Kainos, new in freshness and character; not neos, new in age) for it is kept new and fresh by the very presence of God. The actual age of the city is unknown. It might have been created with the Heaven and the Earth. It has been the location of God's throne ever sinceHeaven was created (Ps. 11;4; 93:2; 103; 19; Isa. 6:1; Rev. 4:2-10; 5:1-13; 7:9-17; 8:3; 22:1-3). It was in existence when man was created, for all saints from the time of Able have looked for it (Heb. 11:8-16; 13:14).

The eternal location of new Jerusalem (Rev. 3:12; 21:2; 9-10, 24-26; 22:1-5). These passages state that the Holy City will be transported from Heaven to the Earth after the Millennium to be with men forever. The eternal location will be on the Earth.

These passages (Rev. 3:12; 21:2, 10; John 14:1-3; Gal.. 4:26; Heb. 9:11; 11"10-16; 12:22) speak of God being the Architect, Builder, and Owner of the Holy City, the city whichis now in Heaven and that it will be moved from Heaven to the Earth after the Millennium, and of the city being prepared as the home of the redeemed of all ages. The city had its beginning in the mind of God sometime in the dateless past. When it was created is not known and all speculation about this is meaningless. We do know its a real city, and it was built by God, and it will always be the capitol city of God and the universe.

Natural people of all nations who live through the Millennium and who do not rebel with Satan against God at the end of the Millennium will be permitted to enter the New Earth to plant, harvest, build, multiply and replenish the Earth as Adam and his seed would have done if they had not fallen. There people will traffic in the New Jerusalem and walk in its light and their kings will bring the glory and honor of the nations into it forever.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Hazard & Kan,

I see that you both think the city, the New Jerusalem is for us. I don`t see it that way, but will leave it to the Holy Spirit to reveal more of His truth to us.

Be blessed bros, Marilyn.