pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[other one]

I should have used the word "they" instead of "We" for neither of us has wished for that global government other than to wish it all to be over with.......   at least I would think that of us both.

[Ezra]

13 hours ago, other one said:

How do you know that Heaven is way beyond outer space?

That should be fairly obvious. The astronauts certainly did not reach Heaven, and we know from Scripture that it is called "the third heaven".

First heaven -- atmospheric/stratospheric

Second heaven -- outer space

Third heaven -- God's Heaven.

[enoob57]

13 hours ago, other one said:

How do you know that Heaven is way beyond outer space?

 

Isa 45:12

 

12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

KJV

[coheir]

Acts 1

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

[Serving]

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

God is a spirit, angels are spirits, the Word who became flesh was a spirit, now, since He died and was resurrected, HE IS FLESH AND BONE! he died, His spirit went to hell, His body remained in the grave. When He was raised, His spirit was reunited with His body. He has a flesh and bone body, no doubt about this.

Luke 24:36, And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    37, But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had see a spirit.
    38, And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    39, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have.

I say it is glorified because this flesh and bone body appeared out of no where and came through walls into a windowless room and appeared before the disciples.

John 20:26, And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus,  the doors being shut,  and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. he appeared in this shut room, in His flesh and bone body.  Its no ordinary flesh and bone body to be able to pass through walls, its no ordinary flesh and bone body to be able to go to Heaven and back in one day after appearing to Mary?

And in this flesh and bone body He sits at His fathers right hand in heaven, NOW!

Heb. 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

He has the scars to prove He is flesh and bone for ever. Zech. 13:6, And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

If you don't see this, what else do you not see or understand?

Instead of hijacking this thread any longer Hazard, let me make a post on this subject with something you might find feasible in regards to Christ's Spirit / flesh .. it might be helpful for you in accepting that Christ is indeed Spirit in a way you may not have even entertained and in a way you can reconcile and even relate to/incorporate smoothly into your own explanation.

Will do it tomorrow, as it's 3am over here and I'm basically browsing atm.

[7Dove77]

Remember,

Respectfully sharing,

When scripture says, (air)........Doesn't mean always,to (fly into the air),

Means to (breath in air,change.,,ect...

Just a thought..!!

 

Blessings,

7Dove77

[HAZARD]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

Instead of hijacking this thread any longer Hazard, let me make a post on this subject with something you might find feasible in regards to Christ's Spirit / flesh .. it might be helpful for you in accepting that Christ is indeed Spirit in a way you may not have even entertained and in a way you can reconcile and even relate to/incorporate smoothly into your own explanation.

Will do it tomorrow, as it's 3am over here and I'm basically browsing atm.

Feel free to do as you see fit. I Prefer to believe what Jesus Himself said about Himself. He became man, divested Himself of His spirit body and took on flesh and bone, He died for us, His spirit went to hell, His flesh and bone body went to the grave and remained there for three days and nights. He was raised from the dead, He went to Heaven and back, He suddenly appeared to doubting Thomas and the disciples who were in a closed room.

They were TERRIFIED  and because they thought they had seen a SPIRIT.

Jesus asked them why they were affrighted"

Luke 24:37, But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a SPIRIT.
   

V. 38, And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

AND JESUS CONTINUED IN VERSE 39, SAYING;
   

V. 39, Behold my hands and my feet, THAT IT IS I MYSELF :  handle me, and see; FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONE AS YE SEE ME HAVE.

That's good enough for me, Jesus Christ is now flesh and bone.

We can also read in ZECHARIAH 13:6. THAT JESUS WILL CARRY THE SCARES HE RECIEVED WHILE HERE ON EARTH FOR EVER;

"And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends."

I think Jesus would know whether He was now flesh and bone, or still spirit better than you or I? He says so Himself in the Scriptures, so its a wast of time discussing this any further, in my opinion! I believe what He says about Himself, not what men think about Him! The difference between spirit and flesh and bone is substance.

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted and be declared a mystery is no God at all. Let us believe, like sensible men, that God can make Himself understood. He will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what men interpret His words to say. He has a right to judge men in the end if they constantly make Him false in all that He says, if they listen to satanic theories. "He that rejecteth me, and recieveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day" (John 12:48; Rev. 20:11-15). This should be enough for men to quit the foolishness of changing God's Word to mean anything they want it to mean? It is the height of ignorance for anyone to claim to know God better than He has revealed Himself to be.

Jesus says He now has a flesh and bone body, so lets let this be the truth.

 

 

[HAZARD]

8 hours ago, other one said:

Hazard, none of the scripture you posted really tells us anything about where heaven is....   just that it exists.....

When Nimrod was building the tower of Babel, he was building something that could reach where God was.....   And God came down and said that they were capable of doing whatever their mind was set to do so he broke up their little party.....    and what they wanted to do was to build something that would reach into Gods place of living.....   we know that you can't do that just with going up.    I do believe that there is much more to our world that we can not see.

 

Yes, it does exist that's for sure. Where nimrod thought Heaven was has nothing to do with where it actually is.

There are two obvious clues as to where heaven is in the supposedly universe if we just believe what we read and not try and add anything to the obvious. When Lucifer decided to invade heaven He said that he would exalt his throne above the stars of God: upon the mount of the congregation IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH.

Isa 14:13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

God also tells us in the Psalms;

Psalm 75:6, For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. V. 7, But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

If promotion comes neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south, but from the Lord (or the north), then Heaven the home of God now is located in the North from the Earth (V. 6-7). This is also confirmed in Isaiah 14:12-14, as I showed earlier, where it is revealed that Lucifer ascended into Heaven from the sides of the north.

 

[HAZARD]

Christ wont be taking anyone out of the Earth to Heaven after the tribulation. He will be coming to the Earth with the saints who were raptured before the tribulation, to set up His kingdom.

So taking this alone into consideration, a post-trib., rapture makes no sense at all?

At the return of the King of glory (Matt. 25:31-46; Isa. 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14; 8:18-22; Zech. 14; 1 Thess. 1:7; Jude 14; Rev. 17:14; 19:11-20:7), The raptured church, those in Him come back to the Earth with Christ to help Him set up the kingdom and reign over the nations (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 1:14: Rev.1 :4-5; 5:10; 17:14; 19:11-21).  

In this age man will have a beginning more favourable than in any other dispensation. Besides having the many wonderful benefits of other ages, man will have the God of Heaven for a ruler and enjoy the privileges that such a rulership will bring.

Anyone who wants to be raptured away from this time will be sadly disappointed, if they indeed are?

I'll take the pre-trib., rapture, avoiding the tribulation and come back with Christ after the tribulation every time thank you

[Esther4:14]

20 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Christ wont be taking anyone out of the Earth to Heaven after the tribulation. He will be coming to the Earth with the saints who were raptured before the tribulation, to set up His kingdom.

 

If no one will be raptured after the tribulation, and Christ will only return with the saints to set up His kingdom, then why does 1 Thessalonians 4:17 say when the dead in Christ rise first, and then those of us who remain are taken up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  Why does it say this is how we will always be with the Lord? 

Further, why does the verse say that we are taken up to meet the Lord when the dead and Christ are raised, when the dead in Christ are not raised until after the 1000 year reign of Christ (Revelation 20:5).  

At this point, I am of the opinion that there will be no post tribulation rapture either as a result of these verses and others that have commonly been used to support pretribulation rapture because the "rapture" according to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 doesn't after happen after the time of tribulation either, so it is not really a post tribulation rapture.  It is a post millennial kingdom rapture. 

1 Corinthians 15:22 says, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order:Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ"

Therefore, when Paul continues to explain this mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, "Listen!  I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet.  For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed."  

When Paul says this, he is talking about the first fruits.  They will be alive at the coming of the Lord as part of the first resurrection, and will not sleep, but will be changed and meet the Lord in the air after the dead in Christ are raised.  

So, when he tells the church of Thessalonica 

"  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words," (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).  

He is endeavoring to encourage those within this congregation who will be part of the first resurrection because they will have no other choice than to give their lives for their faith in Christ (Revelation 20:4-6).  

Basically, he is telling them to encourage each other and not to be afraid of what man can do to the body (Matthew 10:28) because there will be a time when all these things will pass away and we will all (those who are part of the first resurrection, and those who will fall asleep) be changed and taken up to be with the Lord.