pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Serving]

Just now, Last Daze said:

Okay, I have no problem adjusting my view to a long sounding of the trump of God which begins as He descends, and not after.

The main takeaway, for this thread, is that it clearly happens after  the great tribulation, and people should not be lackadaisical but rather prepare for such an eventuality.  May God give us discernment to see through deception and strength to endure to the end.

Exactly .. but I think the thing we are fighting against here Daze has less to do with evidence and more to do with emotions, that they PREFER the sound of pre-trib more than the reality of it  .. and that is a barrier only God can overcome, but you're doing a great job at at least putting cracks in that wall, some may " get it" .. but more importantly, you are sounding the TRUMPET as a watchman .. 

Keep up the good work.

[MorningGlory]

19 hours ago, n2thelight said:

You all really think this flesh body will rise,it's not gonna happen,the flesh shall return from whence it came....DUST!!!!,Never to be nor needed again...Learn from Paul,we have two bodies

Can you post Scripture to back that up, n2?

[MorningGlory]

10 hours ago, Serving said:

Exactly .. but I think the thing we are fighting against here Daze has less to do with evidence and more to do with emotions, that they PREFER the sound of pre-trib more than the reality of it  .. and that is a barrier only God can overcome, but you're doing a great job at at least putting cracks in that wall, some may " get it" .. but more importantly, you are sounding the TRUMPET as a watchman .. 

Keep up the good work.

What difference does it make to you, Daze or any other that doesn't believe in the PreTrib Rapture?  Let everyone work out their own theory or view or whatever.  I get sick of reading all the criticisms of others' beliefs.  AS IF it affects one's salvation at all. 

[Ezra]

On 19/04/2016 at 3:05 AM, n2thelight said:

The resurrection happens at death

Since "resurrection" means the raising of a dead body to life and immortality and glorification, you have a serious misunderstanding about this matter. At death, the body lies in the grave, but the soul and spirit goes either directly to Christ (in Heaven) or to Hades, depending on that person's relationship to Christ.

[Ezra]

22 hours ago, n2thelight said:

You all really think this flesh body will rise,it's not gonna happen,the flesh shall return from whence it came....DUST!!!!,Never to be nor needed again...Learn from Paul,we have two bodies

It would seem that 1 Corinthians 15 is missing from your Bible.

[n2thelight]

7 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Since "resurrection" means the raising of a dead body to life and immortality and glorification, you have a serious misunderstanding about this matter. At death, the body lies in the grave, but the soul and spirit goes either directly to Christ (in Heaven) or to Hades, depending on that person's relationship to Christ.

Where in scripture does it say the FLESH rises?Also you're making my point for me...The soul and spirit is who we are,the dust is simply what we chill in till death,or the return of Christ,whichever comes first....

 

The flesh will not rise

 

 

[n2thelight]

47 minutes ago, Ezra said:

It would seem that 1 Corinthians 15 is missing from your Bible.

I know well,1 Corth 15,that's what Im trying to get you'll to see

 

So,let's take a look..

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

What's the subject?Can we agree that it's what body shall the dead be raised?

 

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

 

I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

It is important to understand the word "quickened", Remember in verse 22 Paul stated; "in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive." This Greek word for "quickened" is the same Greek word for the "coming alive". It means that all, sinners and saints are made alive through Christ. It doesn't mean that the soul is raised to eternal life, for the soul is not the subject here, but the question is what happens to the physical body?

It means to "revitalize" [# 2227 in Strong's] the soul, and become conscience and ready for judgment. This doesn't mean that all souls are saved, but that all souls are given life to continue as they were. If that soul was lost, it will still be lost, but the final death will not take place until after this age of the flesh is over, after the Millennium age, and the Great white throne judgment is finish. Then will be the time of the "second death" or the death of the lost souls. It means that the soul has put off the flesh body, and put on their spiritual body, but their soul is still condemned to death if it is not in right standing with God.

Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

By placing the Word of God in your mind, it becomes the standard for all of your thought, and it directs the intents of your mind, which is you heart. Christ is the Living Word, and He can discern the intent of your mind, you can't fool Him. Within man's soul is his spirit, and the spirit is the intellect part of His thought process.

You have to be able to separate those things to understand the resurrection. Paul is now going to explain our flesh body to us, not the soul, the spirit, or our thought process, but our flesh and blood body.

I Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:"

Paul is comparing our flesh body with other living things, such as a grain of wheat. When the seed is separated from its parent plant it is as naked as a new born baby. This is the body of the wheat, and this is not the grain that you see coming for in new plants next year. This seed of wheat that you set aside for the next years crop is what must die before it can raise up again in a new form. That body of wheat is gone, and that is what happens to our flesh. It must die before the new beautiful spiritual body can come forth.

The flesh body must die and be buried in the ground, for no where is it recorded that a flesh body will resurrect from the dead. Christ's body did rise again, for it paid the price for our sins for one and all times. However, when Christ's body came out of the tomb, it had to be transfigured or flesh man simply could not see Him.

The body of the wheat or of flesh that dies and is planted in the ground is not the same body that springs forth into new life. It is the Spiritual body that ascends to be with the Father, not the flesh. Again the subject is the physical body.

When you plant any seed, flowers, corn, or wheat, there is an embryo deep inside of the body of that plant. As the body of the parent plant decays, it feeds this little embryo that is deep within that seed or kernel of corn. Then when the water, and temperature, and soil are just right, then that embryo springs forth into new life, and a new plant is formed. That is exactly as it is with our flesh body, the old flesh body must die before the new life of our new spiritual of soul body can come forth. The time that it takes for the new spiritual life to come from the death of the old flesh body is instant.

The instant that the flesh body dies, the soul and spirit body is present with the Lord that gave it in the first place. The flesh decays back into the elements of the earth that it is made of, and your soul returns to the Father. Paul could not have made it more simpler than the using of a grain of wheat in comparison to our flesh bodies. Just as all of nature functions, so it is with man.

I Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body."

The body that you have was given to you because it pleased God. We are talking about physical bodies now, and not the souls. Your body was given to your soul for the sake of pleasing God with it, and that is the only purpose that your soul exists in your physical body. Though the flesh body may miss a limb or part, the spiritual body within is still whole and complete. In all of nature, all seeds within them have their embryos for the sake of continuing life after they are gone.

Why did God create the different races on the sixth day, and Adam on the eighth day? To give Him pleasure with the different seed. There is nothing to be ashamed in race for it pleased God to create you as your are. If it pleased God, it had better please you and make you proud of your race.

I Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."

Remember that we are still talking about flesh body, and not the soul. The fact that each of these types of creatures are not all created alike. The dog, or cat, or robin, or fish all look different in their body structure, because their physical bodies were all created differently. They don't look alike, nor act alike yet in their own ways each of them have their own beauty. When the dog has her pups, you know that a fish or a cat will not come from that dog, for she will give birth to a dog. Plain and simple as it is for it is given by God according to His plan.

Genesis 1:24 "And God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind cattle, and creeping things, and the beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."

Genesis 1:25 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw it was good."

God didn't want the snakes to breed kitties, nor the sheep to breed cows. He doesn't want man to cross with an animal, but each flesh which man is, to bring forth its own kind. God has a plan and you and I are part of that plan. That kernel of corn, the fish and you in your flesh body are all part of that plan of God. Each soul that God has created must enter into the embryo of it's flesh mother and be born. It must go through this flesh age only once, and then give up its flesh body. It is from the death of this flesh body that the soul then returns to the Father to be judged for its actions while in your flesh body, and while in the flesh, innocent of the first earth age, but each soul has the right to chose God or Satan.

The conflict started back in the first earth age at the rebellion of Satan, when one third of all souls or children of God rebelled with Satan. Now in this age, God has provided a way that all souls could be brought back to him and that way is through your fresh start in your flesh body by choosing Christ or Satan. God created your soul for His pleasure, and your flesh body houses that soul during this part of God's plan. When your flesh body dies, then it is time for the soul to move back to the Father from where it came, from when He placed your soul into the embryo of your mother at conception.

There are many different thoughts on this matter only remember that Satan likes to twist the truth, and make God's reality a lie. It is important what you believe, for that is what saves or condemns your soul. When your flesh body dies, then your soul returns to our Heavenly Father to give account for all those things that you have said and done while in your flesh body.

All souls when they return to the Father will at first rejoice, then some will have their countenance fall as they are sent to the other side of the gulf. The question here and now is, why would you even listen to any minister that would teach "soul sleep" which condemns a man to hell. Hell simply will not exist until after the Millennium age and the Great white throne judgment, and each soul has been judged? If they would be so careless with God's Word on these matters, what kind of God is this man teaching you? Our God is fair, and He would not burn someone in hell before they are even judged. Our God is a loving God and He desire that no one be destroyed until after they have been instructed and given a choice to chose for themselves. Because of what is being taught today and during the time of the great deception, there will be a Millennium age. If you are sent to hell it is of your own choice. Thank God it is God that does the judging and not some one verse super preacher of today.

Those people that teach that the dead body is going to rise up out of the grave simply don't know what they are talking about. Flesh causes you to sin, and when we are done with this flesh body, it is done away with. Why would you want any part of that old decaying body. The flesh body dies to give your spiritual body new life and a new body that will not age and get sick.

I Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

We are still taking about bodies, and not souls. "celestial bodies" are heavenly bodies, while "terrestrial bodies" are earthly bodies. Paul is telling you that within what you call "self", you have two bodies, and earthly body that will die off and return to the elements that it is made of, and a heavenly body or soul that at the death of the earthly body returns to the heavenly realm or dimension that it came from. Each of the bodies have their own glory or dignity and honor.

I Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."

This is as it is, and it is for this reason that God calls His children "stars". God asked Job to give Him answer to this question in Job 38. Job 38:7; "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Each of the stars are different and so are each of the children that God created. Every one of them has a different body. Yet every last one of them was created for God's pleasure.

Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created."

I Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:"

This is what happens to the dead body, for this body is doomed to corruption of decay from the day each of us are born, to the day we die. That is the ageing process, and no matter how you try to extend your life, it will not be for more than a few years. When this flesh body is finished, the soul that is within it is raised in incorruption. We are talking about flesh bodies, and what happen to them.

We will be getting deeper into the difference between these two bodies, the corruptible body which ages, and is made of the dust and elements of the earth; and the incorruptible body which shall never age and get old. It will look the same through a thousand years as the day that it was created. It never gets sick, and has complete knowledge and recall. The difference between the two of these bodies is one is of flesh, while the other is spiritual and of a different realm.

Our flesh bodies are corruptible, and it is the greatest pollutant on the face of this earth. It is for the satisfaction of the needs of the flesh that all pollution is caused, whether in the air, in the waters, or across our land, all pollution is for the satisfying of these flesh bodies that are corrupting or decaying and need attention to be repaired. Flesh is corruptible. However when the corruptible body is planted in the earth, a new body comes for that does not desire nor need then things of the flesh to satisfy its needs. This new body is our incorruptible soul body.

I Corinthians 15:43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:"

In the flesh body we fall short all of the time, whereas when our soul body is raised we have God's power within us. In that new body we will have that body that is not weak nor will it get sick and age. And when we are raised it is like being turned lose into a freedom that these fleshly minds can never understand. We are never to shorten the time in this flesh body that God has given us for we have a duty and mission here in the flesh, but on that day when it is all over, we will have that glory and power God has placed in our new incorruptible body.

In Adam we all die in the flesh, but in Christ we are raised incorruptible. Even sinners are replenished and brought back to their incorruptible state, some to be held for judgment and their trial and some for eternal rewards. Your flesh body is not what is judged, but your soul that is within that flesh body is returned to the Lord to for its rewards.

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

Your spirit never leaves your soul, even at the death of your flesh body. Satan does not have any power over your spiritual body, but only your flesh body. Man and Satan can tare this flesh body to peaces and cause you to do all sorts of things, but no-one can damage your soul, not man, not Satan nor the angels. God is the only one that can destroy the soul and that comes at the end of the Millennium age, following judgment. However through deception Satan can cause you to sin against God, and thus be in trouble before the Almighty God. But that is why we have repentance in the name of Jesus to become right-standing before the Father again.

It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

This is written by Solomon to the flesh man that walks under the sun, and when the life of the flesh is over, it has no more knowledge or thought than a stick or rock. It is useless, but the soul that is within it is gone and with the Father.

 

http://www.theseason.org/1corin/1corin15.htm

[Ezra]

23 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

The flesh will not rise

If you are already committed to your faulty understanding of this matter, there is nothing more to be said.  On the other hand, if you are prepared to admit to yourself that you have been deceived (or are self-deceived), then please sit down and do a thorough study of this subject in the New Testament.  It is only in the NT that you will find the proper doctrine regarding the afterlife.

[n2thelight]

6 hours ago, Ezra said:

If you are already committed to your faulty understanding of this matter, there is nothing more to be said.  On the other hand, if you are prepared to admit to yourself that you have been deceived (or are self-deceived), then please sit down and do a thorough study of this subject in the New Testament.  It is only in the NT that you will find the proper doctrine regarding the afterlife.

Ditto.

[n2thelight]

On 4/19/2016 at 8:01 AM, Montana Marv said:

If that was the case, why try to bury a body, for it is not there.  Who do we see in a casket?  The body of the dead individual.  So the resurrection of the body does not happen at death.  It does not become immortal at death.  A lot of decayed flesh and many bones in them there cemeteries.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Don't think I ever said,nor does scripture teach that the flesh rises.....

The flesh returns to the dust,your spirit returns to God.We are spirit not flesh,not understanding why people make this so difficult....