The Sabbath and Sunday Worship.

[WailingWall]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Why do you assume that the commandments Abraham followed the same as the Mosaic law?   You seem to be making a huge leap.

Its all bout the voice.

ZEPHANIAH 3 [1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! [2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS; her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. [4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

There are "many" who do not obey the voice. Youll find those roaring lions and ravenous wolves mentioned in the new covenant scriptures. Go read about them. 

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

JOHN 1 [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

MARK 2  [27] And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath: [28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Jesus made the sabbath for man. Not only the Jews

You didn't answer the question.  Why does Jesus being Lord of the Sabbath obligate New Testament Christians to keep it?   Where does that teaching exist in the NT?  There is no commandment explicitly written in the NT that obligates Christians to the Sabbath.

In Mark 2, they were not debating over whether or not the Sabbath was mandatory for nonJews, so to apply that passage to an argument it wasn't written to address, is a fallacious line of argumentation.

[WailingWall]

10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You didn't answer the question.  Why does Jesus being Lord of the Sabbath obligate New Testament Christians to keep it?   Where does that teaching exist in the NT?

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

[WailingWall]

13 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You didn't answer the question.  Why does Jesus being Lord of the Sabbath obligate New Testament Christians to keep it?   Where does that teaching exist in the NT?  There is no commandment explicitly written in the NT that obligates Christians to the Sabbath.

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE

MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

DO YOU KNOW GOD

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED

JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

DO YOU LOVE GOD

1 JOHN 5 [1]  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

WANT TO BE ONE OF GODS SAINTS

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and the faith of Jesus

BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS

ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

WANT TO ENTER THE CITY - THE 1000yr PERIOD OF REST

REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

FROM THE WRITINGS OF PAUL

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God.

Ya see what ALL those scriptures say. Keep Gods 10 commandments. Go read the 4th!

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, WailingWall said:

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

The passage in Ephesians is talking about Gentile participation in the blessings of being made into one new man with Jewish believers through Jesus Christ.   That does not at all claim that Christian Gentiles are obligated to the Sabbath. 

The passage in Isaiah was talking about Gentiles who joined themselves to the nation of Israel and essentially became Jews.  They would have been circumcised and expected to sacrifice, follow all of the civil, ceremonial laws due to their conversion and inclusion in the physical nation of Israel.  Christian Gentiles  are not Israelites, the Church and Israel are radically separate entities in the New Testament.

Neither passage speaks to the question of why Gentile Christians are obligated to keep the OT Sabbath day.   You are still not posting any Scriptures that speak to that issue.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, WailingWall said:

DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFEMATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal,

But Jesus was not making salvational doctrine.   He was speaking to the theology that the rich on ruler was operating under.   The rich young ruler lived in a culture that interpreted his wealth as a sign that he was blessed by God.

He came to Jesus in a condescending manner heaping insincere flatter upon Jesus.   Jesus was not saying that we hvave to keep the law to be saved.  In fact, it was the opposite.  The man claimed he kept the commandments (which he didn't) and Jesus revealed his heart to him by showing him that he was owned by His wealth, that what blocked him from eternal life was that he cared more about his wealth and personal merit than he cared about God or anyone else.  

Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Quote

 

DO YOU KNOW GOD

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

This and several other passages you quote are actually referring to Jesus' commandments, not the law of Moses.

Quote

 

HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT “JUST BELIEVE” AND YOU WILL BE SAVED

JAMES 2 [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble.

DO YOU LOVE GOD

1 JOHN 5 [1]  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

WANT TO BE ONE OF GODS SAINTS

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and the faith of Jesus

BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS

ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

WANT TO ENTER THE CITY - THE 1000yr PERIOD OF REST

REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

FROM THE WRITINGS OF PAUL

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God.

Ya see what ALL those scriptures say. Keep Gods 10 commandments. Go read the 4th!

 

Again, simply referencing passage that speak of the commandments in a generic, blanket fashion do not prove that Christians are obligated to keep the Sabbath.

And it appears that you promote a false gospel by misusing these biblical texts to erect a works-based system of righteousness.   It is false teaching and all  true followers of Jesus should not be deceived by what you promote.

[WailingWall]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

And it appears that you promote a false gospel by misusing these biblical texts to erect a works-based system of righteousness.   It is false teaching and all  true followers of Jesus should not be deceived by what you promote.

Are the Saints true followers?

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, WailingWall said:

Are the Saints true followers?

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Yes, but you have a very shallow approach to God's commamdments.  There are something like 1500 NT commandments and much of the time, the writers are referring to Jesus' commandments when speaking to nonJews.   You're running with an assumption that every time "commandments" is used that it only has one meaning and only speaks to the 613 commandments to Israel.   

The Church is not Israel and it has its blessings and commandments given to it by Jesus and the apostles.   in addition, the NT uses the word "law"  5 different ways.   So you need to actually pay more attention to the intent of the authors instead just quoting a string of prooftexts that don't even say what you're saying.

[other one]

52 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

JOHN 1 [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

MARK 2  [27] And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath: [28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Jesus made the sabbath for man. Not only the Jews

that's interesting since Jesus broke sabbath laws himself.    And since Jesus is the Son of Man and he is Lord of the Sabbath we should follow his lead and not push sabbath laws on each other.

 

Jesus gave us his own commandments for the new covenant.....   didn't take the place of the old covenant, but made a new one with us.....   the old covenant was not capable of giving eternal life and the new one is.....    so why are you still pushing the old covenant?

[WailingWall]

7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, but you have a very shallow approach to God's commamdments.

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. [2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. [5] For HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: [6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: [7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:

Shiloh, who opened his mouth in a parable? Yup, Jesus Christ. And this scripture says he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, that they might set their hope in God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. You seem to want to lump ALL the commandments into 1 bunch of 613

EXOD.34

[28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

 

DEUT.4

[13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

God dont