The Remnants of Israel

[Sister]

7 hours ago, Ezra said:

Sister,

Between 70 AD and the Second Coming of Christ, God does NOT distinguish between Jew and Gentile.  All are guilty before God, all need to repent and be saved.  Once "the fulness of the Gentiles" is completed within the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body), God begins to deal directly with Israel.

Hi Ezra

There is no difference between Jew and Gentile when it concerns accepting and following Jesus Christ. Same rules go for all.   All who go through him will be in the first resurrection.  That is the promise. 

The remnants on the other hand are not chosen because they knew Christ and followed him, but because of mercy.  There is a difference.

The fullness of the gentiles happens at the first resurrection. 

 

Quote

 

"The time of Jacob's trouble" is during the Tribulation (3 1/2 years), and when Christ comes the second time, He then gathers the believing remnant of Israel.  Revelation 12 gives us a glimpse of this remnant (the Woman clothed with the sun representing believing Israel and "remnant of her seed" representing the believing remnant before the Second Coming):

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent... And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ are those who believed in him, followed him, and were persecuted for his name's sake.   You can't have a testimony when the clock strikes 12.  Realising you were wrong at the end is not a testimony, but only an eye opener.  Of course they are going to believe Christ when he comes with all his power.  The whole world will see his power.

[Sister]

4 hours ago, gdemoss said:

I beleive the scripture you quoted is speaking to that effect but the Lord is ever merciful.  I beleive he has plans for all Israel.

Hi Gary

I believe that God has plans for all of Israel too, and not only the last generation.  I believe this because over the years after reading the New testament and the Old, and putting all the prophesies together and comparing scripture with scripture,  a clear picture starts to emerge, one that is not spoken about often, ....and it is a very exciting picture for the remnants of Israel.

Abraham was promised he would enter the promised land, but he never lived to see it.  The same for Isaac, Jacob and his 12 sons.  All did not see it, and even Moses did not enter.  The land flowing with milk and honey is not the Israel in the past full of wars, or the Israel today, but will be a restored Israel all serving the Lord and getting the promises of salvation as a whole nation.

To be in the first resurrection, the requirement is to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, sent to the world for remission of sins and we must go through him.  The remnants of the past did not get to know this.  They knew there was a Messiah coming, but they didn't truly get to find out who he was that came, and that he has the power to forgive sins.  Without going through Jesus Christ, it is impossible to take part in the first resurrection, because this is the way that God intended it for this very purpose;

 Romans 11:11   I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Everything is planned out by God from the beginning.  Nothing happens by chance.  At the start of the millennium after Jesus has established his kingdom in Jerusalem, he will call back all the remnants of Israel from all generations. 

Already during the days of Kings, God said this;

Romans 11:4   But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

These were not reserved just to keep the lineage going, because there were not only 7000 saved, but millions.  These 7000 were reserved for the promised land during the millennium - reserved to be part of the remnants.  It's a clue that God has reserved many remnants from all generations.  Here's another clue;

 Romans 11:5   Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

More remnants from the days of Paul, and remnants right up to the last generation.
 

But how can this be so when most of them are already dead?  Something AMAZING is going to happen, and nobody speaks of it, or even realizes it, and this is what I want to discuss again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Last Daze]

3 minutes ago, Sister said:

Everything is planned out by God from the beginning.  Nothing happens by chance.  At the start of the millennium after Jesus has established his kingdom in Jerusalem, he will call back all the remnants of Israel from all generations. 

I don't disagree that this is possible.  I'm curious though as to why you can't see the same possibility for the 144,000 just before the seven plagues?  I find it highly unlikely, though not impossible, for all 144,000 first-fruits to come from the last generation before Christ's return.

[Sister]

17 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I don't disagree that this is possible.  I'm curious though as to why you can't see the same possibility for the 144,000 just before the seven plagues?  I find it highly unlikely, though not impossible, for all 144,000 first-fruits to come from the last generation before Christ's return.

Hi Last Daze

Ok, because the scriptures have to harmonize, and fit like a glove.  There can be no contradictions.

What can you see in all of these scriptures?

 Galatians 3:28   There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 10:12   For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

 1 Corinthians 1:24   But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Colossians 3:11   Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

So in the resurrection, is there going to be a difference between Jew and Gentile?

 

And then there's these scriptures also

  Romans 3:9   What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

  Romans 3:29   Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

  Romans 9:24   Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

So if there is no difference, they why would God give ISRAEL preference at the resurrection?  Doesn't this just contradict everything taught above?

 

 

[Sister]

Last Daze

Do you think that it possible that there be only 144,000 living in the last days that received the exact same doctrine that Christ taught his apostles? 

Do you think that the true doctrine, first delivered by the apostles, could remain uncontaminated, and survive for over 2000 years?

Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 

Just like the apostles who are our foundations were chosen in the beginning, there will be some who will be chosen in the last days to testify also to the truth. 

These are the very elect.  That number is not random, it's no coincidence.

  Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

[Last Daze]

29 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Last Daze

Ok, because the scriptures have to harmonize, and fit like a glove.  There can be no contradictions.

What can you see in all of these scriptures?

 Galatians 3:28   There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 10:12   For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

 1 Corinthians 1:24   But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Colossians 3:11   Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

So in the resurrection, is there going to be a difference between Jew and Gentile?

 

And then there's these scriptures also

  Romans 3:9   What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

  Romans 3:29   Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

  Romans 9:24   Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

So if there is no difference, they why would God give ISRAEL preference at the resurrection?  Doesn't this just contradict everything taught above?

I guess it depends on whether you see them raised from the dead or raised immortal.

[WilliamL]

13 hours ago, Sister said:

  Amos 9:9   For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

The house of Israel cannot just be just sifted with the last generation?  What about the rest?  Each and everyone belonging to this house will be sifted through.  This is the sifting of ISRAEL, and not the same "sifting" as the sifting of the nations.  There is a difference.

Literally in the Hebrew, "I will sift the house of Israel in all the nations." The purpose of sifting grain is to separate the grain out from everything else. What the Lord is saying here is that he knows who his people are that are living among the nations, and will separate them out and bring them back to their land. Therefore the passage goes on to say,

Amos 9:14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel... 15 I will plant them in their land...

Which is exactly what He has been doing for some time now, and will continue to do hereafter, stage by stage.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

To be in the first resurrection, the requirement is to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, sent to the world for remission of sins and we must go through him.  The remnants of the past did not get to know this.  They knew there was a Messiah coming, but they didn't truly get to find out who he was that came, and that he has the power to forgive sins.  Without going through Jesus Christ, it is impossible to take part in the first resurrection, because this is the way that God intended it for this very purpose;

I'm not so sure I agree with this if you're implying that only NT saints take part in the first resurrection.

What did Jesus do for three days and nights in the belly of the earth?

• Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, And He gave gifts to men.” Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?  He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.  Ephesians 4:8-10

When Jesus ascended, which captives did He lead captive?  1 Peter 3:19 states that He made proclamation to spirits in prison.  Those captives?

[WilliamL]

5 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

When Jesus ascended, which captives did He lead captive?  1 Peter 3:19 states that He made proclamation to spirits in prison.  Those captives?

Yes, those captives. 'The gates of hell did not prevail against them.' Those among them who were ready and willing to receive the Gospel message immediately became part of Christ's Church, and Hades thereafter had no power over them, because their sins were now covered by the blood of Jesus.

[Sister]

9 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I guess it depends on whether you see them raised from the dead or raised immortal.

Last Daze

I see the 144,000 as being raised immortal.  The firstfruits of the the first resurrection.

 Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads

mount = kingdom

Sion (Zion) = a name given to that Kingdom.

mount Sion = Kingdom of God.

 

Revelation 14:2   And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

A clue here they are in heaven before the throne, already accepted.

When Christ comes to collect his saints at the last trump, they will come down with him, ...they are already there.  Still part of the first resurrection, but just the firstfruits.

 

Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;