Standing in the Place , where he is ,not to be ?

[SINNERSAVED]

okay this is a thread to finish and to open  for the abomination of desolation, I know we had a thread on this, but this is about, the person, or thing,?

 standing where he ought not to be ? and so in matthew it is stated

 Matthew 24:15   When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

  Matthew 24:16   Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

  Matthew 24:17   Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

  Matthew 24:18   Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

  Matthew 24:19   And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

  Matthew 24:20   But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

  Matthew 24:21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 and marks version KJV

 Mark 13:11   But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

  Mark 13:12   Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

  Mark 13:13   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

  Mark 13:14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

  Mark 13:15   And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

  Mark 13:16   And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

  Mark 13:17   But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

  Mark 13:18   And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

  Mark 13:19   For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
 

what we have is , the abomination of desolation,  spoken by Daniel standing where it ought not,? in mark

stand in the holy place, in matthew

 so in Daniel

 Daniel 11:31   And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Daniel 12:11   And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 I think I have most of what we need, , we need to see who it is ? and or what it is ? and how this occurs  that's makes it desolate?

thank you

[TrevorL]

Greetings SINNERSAVED,

4 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

what we have is , the abomination of desolation,  spoken by Daniel standing where it ought not,? in mark

stand in the holy place, in matthew

Matthew 24:15-18 (KJV): 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
The above words were spoken by Jesus to the Apostles and were also applicable to the believers in Jerusalem before the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. These words are not applicable to the Gentiles of the current era immediately before the return of Jesus.

The parallel account in Luke that you failed to quote shows this more clearly, and Luke speaks of the long period of time that Jerusalem was to be trodden down by the Gentiles. This period is already coming to an end, as the Jews retook Jerusalem in 1967.
Luke 21:20-24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Adding Daniel 11 to the above creates confusion. You need to look at Daniel 8 first.

Kind regards
Trevor

[SINNERSAVED]

thank you trevorL, I wasn't sure to post the book of luke version, and. so  thank you for that piece, now what I am looking at , in the future, is it a man, a thing or it , or building, that is standing or stands where it ought not be ? this is the question to the posts,

 also that are we awaiting such a event, that is not already happened, ? trying to keep it simple, and not confusing,

 or is it when the son of perdition is revealed,  would it be in the same place as where the temple was ?

 thank you blessings

[n2thelight]

Mark 13:14

"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it [he, who is Satan] ought not, (let Him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

First understand that Judaea is the state that Jerusalem lies in. What takes place in the final days of this earth age, will originate out of Jerusalem and Judaea. We call that tiny state today "the nation of Israel". So first of all we must know what Daniel was talking about, and what this "abomination of desolation" that the world will see is all about. Jesus Christ made the book of Daniel part of the New Testament and the book of Revelation. This is because He said, when you see those events that Daniel was speaking of, let him that readeth them, understand that the end of this age is not far away. It is time to get out of Jerusalem for that is where all this is going to take place, and that is where this false messiah, Satan is going to rule from.

Daniel 9:27

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.' "

Daniel 9:27

says there will be a one week period of years, a seven year period, and in the middle of that period, the holy communion will stop. They will no longer take holy communion to Christ because they will think that Jesus Christ is already here. Then he continues on in the Hebrew, so lets look at what the Hebrew has to say about it.

"On the wings of abomination shall the desolator come in, and on the wing shall ye see the desolator." So the thing that we must pay attention to is the identity of the desolator. Satan is the desolator, and it is not the conditions of desolation, but a person, the devil who is Satan will be the desolator to cause the abomination. Satan is the false messiah, and when you see this desolator standing in Jerusalem and making the claim that he is God, What Christ is saying is that, "it is over". The plan of God for the age of flesh man is completed. You are so close to the end that you should get out of the land of Judaea.

http://www.theseason.org/mark/mark13.htm

[Sister]

9 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay this is a thread to finish and to open  for the abomination of desolation, I know we had a thread on this, but this is about, the person, or thing,?

 standing where he ought not to be ? and so in matthew it is stated

At the end of the 3 1/2 year tribulation.

 Matthew 24:15   When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

  Matthew 24:16   Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (WAR. The Kings of the earth battle each other - 6th trumpet/6th vial)

  Matthew 24:17   Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

  Matthew 24:18   Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

  Matthew 24:19   And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

  Matthew 24:20   But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

(At the START of the 3 1/2 year tribulation.  Scriptures have to be divided.)
  Matthew 24:21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 

 

and marks version KJV

(Mark picks up from the start of the 3 1/2 year tribulation)

 Mark 13:11   But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

  Mark 13:12   Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

  Mark 13:13   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

(Nearing the end of the 3 1/2 year tribulation.  The 6th angel.  God drawing all the armies into Israel for that Great Battle with all the kings of the earth, then followed by Armageddon)
  Mark 13:14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

  Mark 13:15   And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

  Mark 13:16   And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

  Mark 13:17   But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

  Mark 13:18   And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

  Mark 13:19   For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
 

what we have is , the abomination of desolation,  spoken by Daniel standing where it ought not,? in mark

stand in the holy place, in matthew

 so in Daniel

(At the beginning of the 3 1/2 year tribulation)

 Daniel 11:31   And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

(3 1/2 years from the beginning of the tribulation to the end)
Daniel 12:11   And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 I think I have most of what we need, , we need to see who it is ? and or what it is ? and how this occurs  that's makes it desolate?

 

thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paradigm]

^{Luke 21:20-22}

²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is  an excerpt from the website listed below. 

” At Jerusalem Hadrian founded a city in place of the one which had been razed to the ground, naming it Aelia Capitolina, and on the site of the temple of the god he raised a new temple to Jupiter. This brought on a war of no slight importance nor of brief duration, for the Jews deemed it intolerable that foreign races should be settled in their city and foreign religious rites planted there.”

– Cassius Dio, Roman History, 69.12.

From the website: https://followinghadrian.com/2014/11/05/exploring-aelia-capitolina-hadrians-jerusalem/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The following is  an excerpt from the website listed below. 

 

10. The Jupiter Temple in Jerusalem according to Written Testimony 

Is there written testimony that there was once a Roman temple in the Moriah Area of Jerusalem? In the second century of the Common Era, in the era of Hadrian, there was a Jewish revolt against the Romans. There is a debate among historians as to the reason for this revolt (41). However, the results of the rebellion are undisputed. Judea was crushed, the leader of the revolt, Shimon Bar Kochba, was killed, and Judean prisoners were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. The Romans, too, suffered heavy losses. 

As for Jerusalem, the Jews were exiled and prohibited from entering the city. The name of the city was changed to Aelia Capitolina and according to later sources, temples were erected to Jupiter and Aphrodite (42). A later source notes a list of public buildings built by Hadrian in Jerusalem. One of them was called "the square" (43). The temple to Aphrodite was built at the site of the present Church of the Holy Sepulcher. As for the location of the Temple to Jupiter, little is known. There are researchers who doubt if a temple to Jupiter was built at all on the Temple Mount (44). 

Due to the similarity between the walls at the Moriah Area and the Timinus Wall at Baalbek, the similarity between the Jupiter Temple in Baalbek to the structures in the Moriah Area, the drawings of the Roman temple in the Dora Europus Synagogue plus later evidence of a Roman temple and the Square area built by Hadrian, it can be assumed that the Jupiter Temple was built in the Moriah Area and that the Moriah Area was not built by Herod but by Hadrian. This area is the "square" described by the later sources. This explains the discrepancy between the description of the Temple in the sources and the reality which may be seen today. The Jewish Temple Mount was small in size and is totally contained within the pagan Moriah Area. 

From the website: http://www.templemount.org/mtmoriah.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are often  events that have occurred in history of immense importance that are for the most part completely unknown to most. If we never study history, all events are yet to be fulfilled in the future. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Paradigm

[WilliamL]

9 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Matthew 24:15-18 (KJV): 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
The above words were spoken by Jesus to the Apostles and were also applicable to the believers in Jerusalem before the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. These words are not applicable to the Gentiles of the current era immediately before the return of Jesus.

The parallel account in Luke that you failed to quote shows this more clearly, and Luke speaks of the long period of time that Jerusalem was to be trodden down by the Gentiles. This period is already coming to an end, as the Jews retook Jerusalem in 1967.
Luke 21:20-24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The Matthew account records Jesus' answer to the question, "What shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matt. 24:3

The Luke account records Jesus' answer to the question, "When shall these things be [that the stones of the Temple shall all be cast down]?" Luke 21:6-7

Two different questions for two different events: the Matthew prophecy for the End Times, the Luke prophecy for 70 AD.

[WilliamL]

Deut. 7:25 “You shall burn the carved images of their gods with fire; you shall not covet the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be snared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God. 26 “Nor shall you bring an abomination into your house, lest you be doomed to destruction like it. You shall utterly detest it and utterly abhor it, for it is an accursed thing.

This is the origin of the principle of "the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place": a false image of God in the Holy Place of God, that is, the place of the Jerusalem Temple sanctuary.

No such image was set up in 70 AD, so that period can be counted out. Whatever Hadrian may have done in his day -- and the evidence is very disputed -- neither has anything to do with "the End of the Age" of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew. The prophecy is yet to be fulfilled. According to Daniel 12:11, it will be fulfilled in the event of, or sometime soon after, when the King of the North "plants the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain." Dan. 11:45

[SINNERSAVED]

just a side note and a thought, would the dome of the rock  have any part of how the  one that stands where it ought not , have anything to do with finding out what is there that should not, it is just a question for thought and discussion,   I got from another topic  with spock ,I did not transfer it  to this thread, but  it was interesting to me, just saying thanks, if not then that's fine too.

[Paradigm]

2 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

just a side note and a thought, would the dome of the rock  have any part of how the  one that stands where it ought not , have anything to do with finding out what is there that should not, it is just a question for thought and discussion,   I got from another topic  with spock ,I did not transfer it  to this thread, but  it was interesting to me, just saying thanks, if not then that's fine too.

Yes SS, I was going to mention this earlier, but didn't have time. The Al-Aqsa mosque has been there on what most say is the Temple Mount for a long time. It was actually destroyed by an earthquake and rebuilt. So, depending upon if you start at the first mosque or reconstructed one or dedication, the thing has been there for around 1200-1300 years or so. Of course there are other ones there too. 

Daniel 12:11-12 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. ¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Therefore after the destruction of Herod's Temple there is evidence that a Temple to Jupiter was built there on that place. Jupiter of course is basically the same as Zeus. Previously during the time of the Maccabees the temple had been renamed for Zeus. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the context of the questions asked in Matthew 24?

• When will these things happen?
• What will be the sign of your coming?
• And of the end of the age?

What prompted the disciples to ask those questions and ask them at that time? Because Y'shua just told them that the temple was going to be destroyed. The was the main thing on their minds. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 24:1-4 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. ² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 

 

³ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luke 21:5-7  And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

⁶ As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

⁷ And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark 13:1-5  And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! ² And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

³ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, ⁴ Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

⁵ And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore to recap: Historical evidence shows that a temple to jupiter was erected on the Temple Mount. Later a temple to allah and other structures were placed there and have been there pretty much ever since then. 

 

Mathew, Mark and Luke place the important discussion in the Temple area and a discussion about the destruction of the Temple was the thing that the disciples were most focused upon. That was their first question. That question and the context of that question is recorded in all three accounts.