Why were we created?

[apothanein kerdos]

Here you go, debate Free Will. Since apparently it's impossible to keep anything on topic and if I so much as ask people to stick to the topic it's arrogant and rude of me, by all means, have it your flippin way.

[followerofjesus]

I had a really good conversation about conditional love & unconditional love a couple years ago. The Lord must have wanted unconditional love requiring a choice by us because like you said conditional love is fake & pretentious. Would we rather our family love us for just being us or because they have to or what we are?

[Can Do (Phil 4:13)]

SJ, it comes at great personal cost that I write this to you

*WARNING* THIS MAY SHOCK SOME OF MY FRIENDS HERE.*

I wanted to die so desperatley once, that even as a Christian, I was completley willing to give my soul to the devil JUST to get away from the torment I was enduring in this earthly existance. I was battered, bruised, bleeding, had had exceptionally little or no sleep in over 11 days and the torture both physcial and mental that I had endured had left me completely desolate. People have died with what I had suffered, but I had lived. My living existance was far worse than any existance I could forsee in a deathly one. With all that was within me I desperatley wanted to die and be free of it all.

I cried out to God, that if He was all that He claimed He was, and IF he was a God of Love (I didn't believe in such a thing after my horror) then He had to bring Himself about and PROVE Himself to me. I had (in my mind) the upper hand and therefore it was up to God to do the convincing as to if I should go with the devil or stay on God's side.

Well I called out to him and challenged Him, right there in the Hospital. I told him that I was going to forget Him and DIE!!! I called the nurse in and thanked her for looking after me, but it was all about to be over. I felt like telling her to get the morgue thingie ready. I didn't care that I was leaving behind a new baby, a husband and a large extended family. I had my reasons and they could just move on without me, to a better life infact. I was the one suffering, not them. They could walk away from it all, I had to endure the pain, suffering and discomfort of the injuries and mental abuse.

Well God answered my rebellious and defiant call. My husband arrived at exactly the right time and prayed over me. The Lord was calling me to be with Him, but not in the world of the dead, but the world of the living...earthly living. It wasn't something that I really wanted, after all I was well prepared just to end it and be done. A lot of changes started that day, changes that have affected my life and the lives of most people I meet now days. You wouldn't know it from looking at me, or even talking with me. I don't hide the suffering, I am just more thankful to the Lord Jesus that He got me through it.

In the following 3 months after my hospitalization, I met at least 3 other women who had gone through similar experiences to mine. I didn't know that other women could be abused so terribly and survive. What a wake up call. God used my testimony of Salvation that day to help the women I met. They too have sought healing and salvation.

I am now 4 years down the track and God is opening up doors for me. I am healed physically, only few traces remain of my physical suffering. The Lord has taken my psychological burdens upon Himself as I received councelling and laying on of hands in prayer. The door is opening for me to a new life of ministry to Mothers of Pre Schoolers *MOPS* and I am looking forward to my New Life.

SJ, you have a New Life ahead of you. TAke it and KEEP a hold of it. Times are horrible and some days are pure agony, but DON'T give up. The life ahead of you is far greater and more full of promise than the days behind you.

With great sisterly love

Faithie

[other one]

SJ, we were created in the image of God. I know of very few people who do not really need to be loved. I know that I do and as best I can tell everyone around me does also. So I agree with your point about being loved.

One must also look at the reality of the Universe. God in love created the angelic realm and Lucifer and a third of them turned on God and are far from the loving creachers that God seemed to intend.

So he requires us to put him first. As I read the meaning of the word worship, it is to bow down or basically keep ourselves in our proper place and not follow Lucifer's example of trying to be equal to the Father.

But all through scripture we are instructed to love Him and serve Him. When Jesus came here he not only saved our sorry backsides, he gave us the example as to our relationship with the Father.

Our Father so loved this world and us that He sent his only begotten Son to suffer for us. The Son loved the Father so that he willingly served Him and paid our price for failure.

Too much is placed on the worship part in my opinion and not nearly enough on the love side.

I read where some will be serving at the throne, some will be given the morning star (what for I don't have a clue) and that we will judge the fallen angles.

I have no idea what we will be doing for the rest of ever, but I would agree it will be better than here.

I might tell you though that you are just giong through much of the time that I considered the worst time here on planet earth. I did not enjoy life here until I got out of school and met my wife. Life before that was simply a struggle.

So I might say that you are really just at the point when you can set back and relax a bit and enjoy your life here on planet earth. Of course it depends on whether or not you can find satisfaction in what you are doing and not looking for something better each day. To many people get caught up in the persuit for happeness that they never take the time to be happy. Paul says it best by being content in whatever state you find yourself in.

Doesn't mean we can't strive to be better, but if the purpose turns out to be the striving then we never reach any goal let alone happyness.

Just some thoughts

se

[Leonard]

Can Do: Thank you for sharing. I'm so glad the Lord brought you through......

[Khristeeanos]

Ephesians 2:10 says we were created to do good works for God.

[RustyAngeL]

I think we all go through this at one time or another. I know that in the depth of my depression in 2000, I just wanted to die. I say no way out of the blackness that surrounded me. However I can look back and see God's Hand in it all. It has given me a compassion for others that I might not of had otherwise. Just hold on. It says in psalms...that weeping endures for a night but joy comes in the morning. I really believe that and that knowledge didn't come easy but it came and if you allow God to He will minister to you at your need. Love you.

[other one]

Whysoblind, Jesus was the first person on the face of this earth that did not sin to some extent his whole life. He was and is the last also. If you are basing your happiness on living a sinless life you are hopeless for you have set your sights on his perfection that will not be attained by any of us.

Setting you sights on this perfection is good for the spirit, but to tie your happiness to accomplishing that is disasterous.

You are right when you say that we can not be in this world without being involved in sin in some way. Paul told us he sinned and did things he didn't want to do. Most of us do the same in one way or the other. You don't have to be perfect to be happy or even productive for that matter.

Also I see and hear people calling things sin that are not sin at all, and make people feel like they are falling short. I see nothing sinful about your post here, just a brother opening up to people because he is hurting. Where is the sin in that.

I think maybe your are more right than you know about the Mcblessing stuff. We have been promised much more in this life by a lot of preachers than I find in the Word. Actually that is part of the reason I don't attend a church any more, that and people having dogmatic doctrines that just don't hold up to scripture.

Take a break from all the teaching of others..... get yourself a good NASB bible and get to yourself and read it through from one end to the other. Even better get one on CD and listen to it.

Every time you pick it up ask God to give you His message and only His message, for I can tell that you are carrying around some teachings that come from church and not from the Word. You are expecting much too much from yourslef and not feeling that you can attain it, you are thinking you are a burden to others. Well you arn't perfect and will not be in this world, and you are not a burden to me, so that's something. I may worry about you, but that's not a bad thing my friend. That is what we are here for..... to worry and help each other.

se

[nebula]

I might tell you though that you are just giong through much of the time that I considered the worst time here on planet earth. I did not enjoy life here until I got out of school and met my wife. Life before that was simply a struggle.

Here is the problem with that. Why would I want to burden anyone, that is if I truly love them, with myself, seeing I am not happy as I am. If I am not happy now, then it is a false assumption to say that I would ever be happy in the future either, this does not just apply to the fact that I am single, but in every aspect of my life.

On one hand, I agree with your response.

On the other, I am wondering if what the person you quoted from meant through this that he found enjoyment in life after marriage because it enabled him to take his eyes off himself and on to someone else?

No, you don't have to be married to find this, but maybe for him it did.

P.S. I am single, too. I know I don't "need a man to make me happy" (actually, I could say . . . oh never mind, I don't want to hijack the thread . . . ). But there is something in us that does need to "love and be loved." Marriage is one way to fulfill this. Becoming a parent is another. But so can friends and family. And so can ministering.

[other one]

Actually it was the getting out of school as much as meeting the wife. Finishing school was a really big milestone in my life. I always hated school, don't know why. But the releif of that and meeting my other half a couple of years later made a large difference. When you're 57 those times seem sort of alltogether and hard to seperate from this distance.

I think you're right about needing to be loved Neb. You can get that need filled many ways. I have an aunt that filled that need with pets. Some may thing that sort of weird, but she was content and for her that was ok.