Nothing is more important than miracles

[spiderman1917]

 

There you go. I knew something was off.

You quote a post where I say nothing is more important than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and your response is "I knew something was way off"

How is that?

[Esther4:14]

Your op reminds me of a story I wrote a while ago about the wheat and tares during the tribulation.  The tares were busy with their greed and my main character of the wheat group was a farmer camping with his neighbors because the tribulation had reduced them to a severe state of poverty.  

I spent a good long time considering the parable of the 2 fish and five loaves for this scene because it is my favorite miracle.  It just amazes me to think of how He multiplied 2 fish and 5 loaves to feed so many many people (John 6:1-14).  This is what my farmer character was gonna do in a somewhat dystopian setting. 

I wish I could find it.  I wrote it several years ago for fun and I can't find it.  Anyways, I realized that Jesus fed 5,000 people with 2 fish and 5 loaves because of love.  So, my farmer has a eureka moment where he realizes he needs to love his neighbor to multiply what they have so everyone can eat in sackcloth and ashes.  

This is how miracles are performed.  

"earnestly desire the higher gifts.

And I will show you a still more excellent way...if I have all faith,so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing...love never ends...So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love" (1 Corinthians 12:31;13).

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love" (1 John 4:8).  

More love= more gifts.

[gdemoss]

Yeah Spidy, I pray for the gifts that I might use them to bring people unto Christ.  The gift of prophecy as well as the gift of miracles and that of healing would be very useful.  I am but a babe in Christ and still seeking to shed my carnality that I might become useful unto God.  

The word miracle interests me for sure.  I beleive that their is a lot of revelation within the very words used to describe something.  The root word for miracle deals with smallness and purity. Two things needed in order to please God.

[siegi91]

 

I'm frustrated that so many Christians say "I don't want the gift of Prophecy or healing because that would tempt me to be proud , and I don't need to see in order to have faith."

Okay, I don't doubt that being a prophet or a miracle worker is a Temptation toward pride , and having faith without seeing Miracles is more heroic faith.

However, to not want those gifts because you think it will tarnish your soul is quite selfish.  Those are the most important gifts for converting the souls that are most in danger of being lost.

I watched the documentaries about scientists who examined the Shroud of Turin and the Guadalupe image , and because it was on cloth with no indication of being painted or dyed, and with all of our technology we are not able to reproduce such a thing without being able to scientifically prove that it is a hoax, many scientists converted over that.

If atheists would Convert over something like that, imagine how many more would convert if they saw an amputee grow new limbs or Christopher Reeves get up out of his wheelchair.

The thing is, that is precisely what the gospels command us to do. Jesus said we will do his works and Greater Works than these and he commanded us to cleanse the lepers, and heal the lame and the sick, and that is what the apostles did.

people that were into magic or other faiths threw away their magic books and followed Christ and the apostles, because they saw through the Miracles that God was greater than their weak demonic gods.

In Scripture that was what Drew people to Jesus and got him the most followers was his miracles. When there was dispute about whether or not he was a true or false prophet, people said "how could he work these miracles if he were not from God?"

If you need no miracles to have unshakable faith , that is absolutely a good quality (that no one can argue with, ) but the people we should be most concerned about are the unbelievers.

in our day of Science and so much technology, so many of the people most in danger of losing their souls will not convert unless they see a miracle for themselves.

People are skeptic and they mock the scriptures , because Moses parted the Red Sea , and the Old Testament prophets worked all sorts of signs and wonders and Elijah called down fire from heaven.

They raised the dead , turned a staff into a snake, and did all sorts of amazing things, and yet Jesus said we could all do those things, and commanded us to, yet there's more Christians on the earth now than there ever was, and people are simply not doing that.

Paul said he wanted everyone to prophesy, so if you are not praying for the gift of Prophecy, please do that , but also pray for the gift to work miracles, because there is nothing more important than miracles for converting those who are atheist and say they are for science all the way , and who see no evidence that the claims of scripture are true.

Without Christian's working the Miracles Jesus said we would work, it ruins much of the credibility of the scriptures that we are preaching.

If miracles were so important to convince us, why not a miracle that operates directly on our brains and converts us straight away?

 segi

 

[Esther4:14]

 

If miracles were so important to convince us, why not a miracle that operates directly on our brains and converts us straight away?

 segi

 

Is that what you would really want Him to do?  I don't know, you seem too smart to really want someone to just dictate that your brain should convert this way.  I don't really even believe that's what you want to begin with, and I don't think its what He wants either.  I think He likes your brain the way it is already.  This is why He does not operate on your brain as you say.  

I think you might even be surprised at how much doesn't change when you accept Christ because He already made us who we are for a reason. 

Take care.

[siegi91]

 

Is that what you would really want Him to do?  I don't know, you seem too smart to really want someone to just dictate that your brain should convert this way.  I don't really even believe that's what you want to begin with, and I don't think its what He wants either.  I think He likes your brain the way it is already.  This is why He does not operate on your brain as you say.  

I think you might even be surprised at how much doesn't change when you accept Christ because He already made us who we are for a reason. 

Take care.

I never said that is what I wanted. Even though, it would be rational from me to auspicate such an intervention if God really xisted. I asked whether that would not be more efficient.

There are, in fact, less invasive miracles, but the final result would be the same. For instance, if I see an amputee growing a new arm after a prayer, I would immediately reconsider my atheistic position, independently from me still having a free choice in that matter. My view is that such miracles are not much different than changing my brain's wiring directly. 

 

 

[gdemoss]

I don't know, Jesus said if they wouldn't beleive Moses and the Prophets then they wouldn't beleive even ifnone were raised from the dead.  I would be willing to wager that once the first amputee began growing his limb back they would look for the 'natural' cause and give God no credit just like they do with creation.  They 'think' they can explain it well enough without God and therefore conclude God unnecessary for creation.  There is a way that seems right unto a man but it leads unto death. Tragic.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

Several miracles were necessary for me to believe.  But blessed is he who sees and hears no miracles yet believes.  He or she will be suitably blessed in the kingdom to come.

[spiderman1917]

On 4/11/2016 at 2:01 AM, siegi91 said:

If miracles were so important to convince us, why not a miracle that operates directly on our brains and converts us straight away?

 segi

 

That is the most important one.  Complete conviction of mind, heart, and soul

[spiderman1917]

I don't know, Jesus said if they wouldn't beleive Moses and the Prophets then they wouldn't beleive even ifnone were raised from the dead.  I would be willing to wager that once the first amputee began growing his limb back they would look for the 'natural' cause and give God no credit just like they do with creation.  They 'think' they can explain it well enough without God and therefore conclude God unnecessary for creation.  There is a way that seems right unto a man but it leads unto death. Tragic.

Nope...I don't believe that is a statement that applies to most people.

I know when I was an Atheist, I would have quickly been moved to pray and change my life were I to see something like that. In fact, after being a Christian for years and praying and fasting, one of the biggest factors in my abandoning the faith for 14 months was seeing no results that anything supernatural was happening.

Many people are converted through miracles.  I hear testimony after testimony after testimony of it.  One reason the Pharisees wanted to put Lazarus to death was because how many Jews converted to follow Christ when they witnessed Lazarus raised from the dead.

Thing is, many Atheists would listen to Moses and the Prophets.  Just because a book talks about Moses and the Prophets doesn't mean that is the same thing as meeting them and actually witnessing it.  I read the Bible as an Atheist.  I didn't know I was rejecting any truth.  It seemed like a far fetched fairy tale.  I was reading a book.

That is what the Bible seems like to many skeptics is a book and nothing more.  They don't believe all the stories about walking on water, parting the red sea, multiplying loaves, or making the lame walk because they have never seen evidence of such things themselves.