The anti-Christ, Jew or Gentile?

[Marilyn C]

6 minutes ago, Ezra said:

So what?  That does not mean that a Jew cannot have the nationality of an Assyrian.  In fact the Assyrian empire was peopled with thousands of Jews, and their descendants are probably walking around today in Iraq or anywhere else in the world.

Except that would not fulfil the plan to present the Antichrist as the *true* Jewish Messiah.  The Orthodox Jews are eagerly waiting for their Messiah, and he will not used armed force but guile and flattery.  That too is in prophecy.  He will deceive the Jews (and the world) with his dazzling signs and wonders (and that too is in Scripture).

As to "where does it say that Israel accepts this world leader as their Messiah", well first of all he will be the Jewish Messiah (calling himself Yahweh Elohim), and only then will he be the world leader.  He will establish himself in Jerusalem, then within the Temple at Jerusalem, and finally as the world ruler.  The world will worship his image which is within that Temple, thus making him the world leader and god.

Hi Ezra,

The nationality of Assyrian is different from the nationality of a Jew. Yes people can call themselves from a nation, but we are talking about the actual ancestor blood line. Even in your statement you said that thousands of Jews were in that region of Assyria. yet don`t you see you regarded them as Jews. That is their nationality.

Didn`t see any scriptures there Ezra, supporting your Jewish anti-Christ. And why does the last world ruler have to be Israel`s Messiah? If you remember the great Image we see that it represents the Times of the Gentiles & thus each world ruler is a Gentile.

Marilyn.

 

 

[Ezra]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

The nationality of Assyrian is different from the nationality of a Jew.

Marilyn,

Can a Jew be an Australian and still remain a Jew?  The same principle applies.  The DESCENT is from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but the nationality could be anything. There are German Jews, Russian Jews, etc.

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Didn`t see any scriptures there Ezra, supporting your Jewish anti-Christ.

Since Jerusalem, the Temple in Jerusalem, the Abomination of Desolation, and Armageddon are clearly mentioned in Daniel, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation, there is no need to bring out Scriptures to support the fact that the Antichrist will be a Jew.  He will literally sit in the Temple and call himself God (Yahweh Elohim).

[Marilyn C]

21 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Marilyn,

Can a Jew be an Australian and still remain a Jew?  The same principle applies.  The DESCENT is from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but the nationality could be anything. There are German Jews, Russian Jews, etc.

Since Jerusalem, the Temple in Jerusalem, the Abomination of Desolation, and Armageddon are clearly mentioned in Daniel, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation, there is no need to bring out Scriptures to support the fact that the Antichrist will be a Jew.  He will literally sit in the Temple and call himself God (Yahweh Elohim).

Hi Ezra,

`And He (God) made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, & has determined their pre-appointed times & the boundaries of their habitation.` (Acts 17: 26)

As God made all the nations of the earth then I believe He correctly identifies a person`s nationality. Today we call people of a nation because they live there, but God refers to their actual origin. Also God called Israel out of all the other nations & thus made a new nation upon the earth. Jews are of Jewish nationality even though they reside in another land.

Of course there is need for scriptures to support your view.  

Marilyn.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

You said -

`To be the Antichrist, the person has to be the King of Israel, instead of Jesus the rightful king. `

Where does it say that the last World Ruler has to be King of Israel? The anti-Christ, just means someone who is against (anti) Christ.

You call him the King of Israel but he is a Gentile as are all the other world rulers that God has shown in the Great Image. This is symbolic of the `times of the Gentiles` ruling the world.

Note: `The gods of his fathers` can be any religion. (Dan. 11: 37)

 

Marilyn.

Marilyn, the person who becomes the Antichrist, the King of Israel, is only in the position of King of Israel for the first half of the seven years.  

In Revelation 13,  when he rules over the world, those 42 months are the second half of the seven years, and he will no longer be the King of Israel, because the Jews will disavow him as continuing as their king because he claims to be God, and stops the daily sacrifice.

For that 42 months, the person as the beast will persecute the Jews and anyone who doesn't worship him.    So he is not their king any longer during that 42 months.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by douggg

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi dougg,

You have laid out some scriptures there, & I agree that the Jews will only accept a descendent from David as their Messiah. However the anti-Christ does not come as the Messiah to Israel but as the Global Leader of the world.

`And all the world marvelled & followed the beast.` (Rev. 13: 3)

The Jews want peace & are willing to give land for it & eventually they will accept this leader who makes a peace covenant with them.

Does any scripture say that the Jews accept the anti-Christ as their Messiah?

Marilyn.

Marilyn, when Jesus said in John5:43  "if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive", Jesus was not talking about accepting a peace maker, but about being the messiah, the King of Israel.    Jesus came in his Father's name, to be the messiah, the promised great King of Israel.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Marilyn, if I were to say to you - John F Kennedy, senator of Massachusetts. was killed in Dallas TX.    Was John Kennedy - senator at the time?   No, he wasn't, he was President of the United States, a different role than senator.    In similitude, the person who becomes the Antichrist, King of Israel (illegitimate), will no longer be the Antichrist, King of Israel, when he is the beast in Revelation 13 those last 42 months.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by douggg

[Qnts2]

Just to interject some thoughts.

I am an American Jew. I am a citizen of the U.S. But, I am not a native American. A Jewish person who lives in the area of Assyrian is not a native Assyrian. They are living in diaspora which means they live outside of their land which would be Israel.

In Judaism, it is believed there are and have been many messiahs. But there will only be on The Messiah. A messiah is a person who helps the Jewish people. It is a person who is anointed to do the will of God and might be a teacher or King. The Messiah has a series of prophesies to fulfill. If a person fulfills some of the prophesy, they will not be declared officially The Messiah until they fulfill all of the prophesies.

So, an Assyrian could claim (falsely) to have been told they are a descendant of David which at this time is not entirely provable. If they undergo a DNA test, it might show they are of middle eastern descent which would make it a possibility but not guaranteed. If they offer a peace treaty, that would be a possible fulfillment of one of the Messianic prophesies, which means that person should be observed to see if they might be the Messiah. If they help to build or complete or improve the Temple, that would be the fulfillment of another prophesy. But, if they go into the Temple, beyond the Jewish male court, they will have violated the Mosaic law, which The Messiah would not do, and will be rejected as The Messiah. So, as soon as the anti-christ goes into the restricted area only for the Priests, almost all Orthodox Jews will reject him as The Messiah. Some or many secular Jewish people will also reject him.    

[n2thelight]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi n2thelight, `The beast was captured & with him the false prophet .....these two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone..... Then I saw an angel....he laid hold of....Satan, & bound him for a thousand years; & he cast him into the bottomless pit, & shut him up,....` (Rev. 19: 20 & 21,   20: 1 – 3) Beast (A/C) & false prophet -> lake of fire. Satan -> bottomless pit. Quite clear as Robert said – the unholy Trinity.

Marilyn.

Not clear at all,and that's why most of the world will be deceived!!!

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

Just to interject some thoughts.

I am an American Jew. I am a citizen of the U.S. But, I am not a native American. A Jewish person who lives in the area of Assyrian is not a native Assyrian. They are living in diaspora which means they live outside of their land which would be Israel.

In Judaism, it is believed there are and have been many messiahs. But there will only be on The Messiah. A messiah is a person who helps the Jewish people. It is a person who is anointed to do the will of God and might be a teacher or King. The Messiah has a series of prophesies to fulfill. If a person fulfills some of the prophesy, they will not be declared officially The Messiah until they fulfill all of the prophesies.

So, an Assyrian could claim (falsely) to have been told they are a descendant of David which at this time is not entirely provable. If they undergo a DNA test, it might show they are of middle eastern descent which would make it a possibility but not guaranteed. If they offer a peace treaty, that would be a possible fulfillment of one of the Messianic prophesies, which means that person should be observed to see if they might be the Messiah. If they help to build or complete or improve the Temple, that would be the fulfillment of another prophesy. But, if they go into the Temple, beyond the Jewish male court, they will have violated the Mosaic law, which The Messiah would not do, and will be rejected as The Messiah. So, as soon as the anti-christ goes into the restricted area only for the Priests, almost all Orthodox Jews will reject him as The Messiah. Some or many secular Jewish people will also reject him.    

Hi Qnts2,

Thank you for those relevant details, much appreciated & has added value to our discussion.

Marilyn.

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Of course there is need for scriptures to support your view.  

I have indicated where those Scriptures are found.  However, even if a raft of Scriptures were presented you would continue to believe what you believe. You simply ignored what someone else had pointed out regarding Christ's clear statement to the Jews in John 5:43: I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

This is a prophetic statement by Christ regarding the Antichrist. Jesus of Nazareth, a Jew, was addressing Jews who had rejected Him, and telling the nation of Israel that while He came in His Father name, they rejected Him, but the one who would come in his own name -- claiming to be God -- would be gladly received by the Jews.  Orthodox Jews are anxiously awaiting their *Messiah*.  This *Messiah* will perform some powerful miracles to convince the Jews (and the whole world) that he is Christ.

 

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

Marilyn, the person who becomes the Antichrist, the King of Israel, is only in the position of King of Israel for the first half of the seven years.  

In Revelation 13,  when he rules over the world, those 42 months are the second half of the seven years, and he will no longer be the King of Israel, because the Jews will disavow him as continuing as their king because he claims to be God, and stops the daily sacrifice.

For that 42 months, the person as the beast will persecute the Jews and anyone who doesn't worship him.    So he is not their king any longer during that 42 months.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi douggg,

Still you haven`t given me any scriptures.

Marilyn.