Young Earth/Old Earth

[Steve_S]

On 6/12/2016 at 6:01 AM, post said:

Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
(Isaiah 40:4) 

As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet
(Luke 3:4) 

but the earth herself was not smoothed out. 

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I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth.
These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them.
(Isaiah 42:16)

and He has, and does -

For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord
(Ephesians 5:8)

So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen.
For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,'
and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.
(Mark 11:23)

On that day the deaf will hear words of a book,
And out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see.
(Isaiah 29:8) 

as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."
(Romans 11:8)

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him,
were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, 
to the praise of his glory.
(Ephesians 1:13-14)

In just perusing this thread I noticed this. Brother, I would suggest you go back and take a hard look at these and consider the context. Context is incredibly important when considering exegesis. I do not mean to say this as a way of casting aspersions (hopefully it doesn't come across that way), but simply saying that sound biblical exegesis always includes carefully considered localized contextualization of the scriptures.

[post]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

The Jews who rejected Jesus were not zealous for God

For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
(Romans 10:2)

[post]

1 hour ago, Steve_S said:

In just perusing this thread I noticed this. Brother, I would suggest you go back and take a hard look at these and consider the context. Context is incredibly important when considering exegesis. I do not mean to say this as a way of casting aspersions (hopefully it doesn't come across that way), but simply saying that sound biblical exegesis always includes carefully considered localized contextualization of the scriptures.

 

ex·e·gete

ˈeksəˌjēt/

verb

gerund or present participle: exegeting

1. expound or interpret (a text, especially scripture).

who's exegeting? 

please be my guest to go back and take a careful look at exactly what i actually posted, and compare how much of what you think i am doing or saying is actually only in your mind, and not in my post. 

& thanks for the advice! good stuff. 

[Steve_S]

1 minute ago, post said:

 

ex·e·gete

ˈeksəˌjēt/

verb

gerund or present participle: exegeting

1. expound or interpret (a text, especially scripture).

who's exegeting? 

please be my guest to go back and take a careful look at exactly what i actually posted, and compare how much of what you think i am doing or saying is actually only in your mind, and not in my post. 

& thanks for the advice! good stuff. 

Correlation of sets of scriptures across several books is doing precisely that, as it requires interpretation of any given two scriptures to correlate them. Of course, I full well admit that, as you point out, I might be mistaken. Were you simply posting random scriptures with no purpose or attempt to correlate them? If so, I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

[post]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

There is no "wonder" in terms of what God has plainly said. 

?? 
i find quite often that you don't make very much sense to me. 


and his name shall be called Wonderful
(Isaiah 9:6) 

 

won·der

ˈwəndər/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a feeling of surprise mingled with admiration, caused by something beautiful, unexpected, unfamiliar, or inexplicable.

    

   •  

verb

 

1. 1.

   desire or be curious to know something.
2. 2.

   feel admiration and amazement; marvel.

[post]

6 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

Correlation of sets of scriptures across several books is doing precisely that, as it requires interpretation of any given two scriptures to correlate them. Of course, I full well admit that, as you point out, I might be mistaken. Were you simply posting random scriptures with no purpose or attempt to correlate them? If so, I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

listing scriptures in proximity to each other is not what i would call "expounding or interpreting" them . . .  

what exactly was it you think there is a problem with? 

will you bear with me while i actually exegete? 

Luke 3 directly states that John is the fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3-5 ((don't see how you could have a problem with that)) 

as for the rest -- Isaiah 42 is Messianic. so i confirmed that God has kept and continues to keep the promises He makes in this prophecy.
what is written in Ephesians confirms and expounds the mystery of godliness revealed in Christ, God's "chosen Servant" as described in Isaiah 42. 
Has the Lord not taken us out of darkness and into light? did He not lead us, who were blind, in ways we did not know? 
what is written to the Corinthians encourages the brethren in the hope of this same glorious gospel - a hope that looks to things unseen, as though blindly, but not blind - because those who are blind in the eye may still perceive with other senses. as we now do, living by Spirit rather than by carnal perception. so trusting in things unseen - we are led by Him down unfamiliar paths, fulfilling Isaiah 42 again. 
the Lord said that by faith we could move mountains and toss them into the sea - this is literal, and figurative: we by faith bring the mountains low and fill in the chasms, smoothing out the rugged places - by faith in the One who does these things for us as we walk in Him ((for it is not by our own power that we do anything - being dead; now Christ lives in us, and even our faith a gift of God, by which we believe, and by which the way is made smooth before us -- in re: Proverbs 3:5-6, Isaiah 40:4 again, Galatians 2:20, John 14:13-14, Isaiah 43:19, etc etc)) 
and how did we come by this faith, and this redemption? faith by hearing, and hearing by the word ((Romans 10:17)) -- i actually made a typo there i see now; i quoted Isaiah 29:18, not 8 -- the latter half of this chapter 29 speaks of the blindness of Israel ((coincidentally, i was still thinking about that a few posts up from this one haha)) and is also Messianic -- speaking of the deaf hearing and the blind seeing -- which is the hope of glory being revealed in us, the Gentile, while Israel remains blinded until the fullness of the strange-tongued are brought in, at which time they too will have their ears opened and their eyes unshut ((in re: well, Isaiah 29:11-24 for example, & Romans 11:25-32, etc)). 
this same concept - of a truth - is reiterated in what i quoted next in the chain - Romans 11:8, speaking of Israel, but only of Israel? heh, i think the same chastisement falls on many! 
and finally i put Ephesians 1:13-14 -- which again is from an epistle exegeting the hope of glory revealed in us through Christ, about which this entire train of scriptures has spoke, about the opening of our own blind eyes and unstopping of our own deaf ears: which took place in us at exactly the time being described in these last verses, to wit, when we heard and believed. at this time we received the Spirit, who placed faith in us; a first gift, and were granted a new heart and new eyes and new ears which could perceive things such as what i have just described to you, and lay them to heart, to this new heart, which is able to receive them. 

do you feel better now? 
you should feel great joy, i think -- and possibly sorrow for some who remain deaf and blind, if you have understood what i have told you. 
but i do not think you should feel like needlessly criticizing a servant of God, who seeks to bring Him glory, because of what i've said. 

only perhaps i am wrong -- that is always a possibility, because i know i am also given to madness. 

there is much more in these verses that i quoted without expanding on them or interpreting; there is much more than the small amount that i just actually did expound and interpret, much more than i myself could perceive i am sure, and much more that i do see -- but i thought that it would be better that the Spirit taught you these things Himself, if you read this with a sense of wonder -- which is why i just posted them without any exegesis at all. 

ironically, i also had the thought that certain persons 'have it out' and would simply attack and criticize whatever i said, instead of taking these things to heart and being edified by them, so that my mere presence becomes a temptation to those persons to sin. so i left off saying anything at all about them, except 'He has done these things, and He does these things' 
i had the idea that that was a relatively harmless thing to do: to praise God! 

so i didn't add anything like what i just put for you.

but someone decided to criticize it anyway, though it was nothing but scripture, and accuse me of all kinds of bad hermeneutic and false theology. even though i didn't actually say anything: i just posted scripture. i didn't interpret anything: i just posted scripture. i didn't expound on anything ((until now, when you asked)): i just posted scripture. 
this person still found fault with a lot of things i never even said or did. 

weird, don't you think? 
makes me start wondering all kinds of things about how God hardens people's heart, for His own purpose to show His glory through them in some way, as those stiff necks are broken. 
yeah, weird. 

so anyhow -- 
does that string of scripture make more sense now? 
and what exactly do you think is wrong with it, if anything? 

thanks.


 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

57 minutes ago, post said:

?? 
i find quite often that you don't make very much sense to me. 


and his name shall be called Wonderful
(Isaiah 9:6) 

 

won·der

ˈwəndər/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a feeling of surprise mingled with admiration, caused by something beautiful, unexpected, unfamiliar, or inexplicable.

    

   •  

verb

 

1. 1.

   desire or be curious to know something.

    
2. 2.

   feel admiration and amazement; marvel.

There is no "wonder" or mystery in the plain statements of Scripture except what you and others try to manufacture.   If God says he made the earth in six days, there is no mystery, no hidden truths or mystical concepts.

One thing about interpreting Scripture is, as some say, "Sometimes a rock is just a rock."   Sometimes it just is what it is and we take God at His word, pure and simple.  

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, post said:

For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
(Romans 10:2)

I said that the Jews who rejected Jesus, i.e.,  the religious leaders were not really zealous for God and Jesus said that they put their traditions ahead of the word God.   Paul is speaking of the Jews in general.   I was speaking of those who actively rejected Jesus when confronted by Him during his earthly ministry.

[Guest shiloh357]

20 minutes ago, post said:

listing scriptures in proximity to each other is not what i would call "expounding or interpreting" them . . .  

what exactly was it you think there is a problem with? 

will you bear with me while i actually exegete? 

Luke 3 directly states that John is the fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3-5 ((don't see how you could have a problem with that)) 

 

But what you cited specifically before is Isa. 40: 4 and you said that clearly the valleys were not exalted and hills were not made low.   You didn't really go any further to explain why you felt that was significant.

Quote

but someone decided to criticize it anyway, though it was nothing but scripture, and accuse me of all kinds of bad hermeneutic and false theology. even though i didn't actually say anything: i just posted scripture. i didn't interpret anything: i just posted scripture. i didn't expound on anything ((until now, when you asked)): i just posted scripture. 
this person still found fault with a lot of things i never even said or did. 

weird, don't you think? 
makes me start wondering all kinds of things about how God hardens people's heart, for His own purpose to show His glory through them in some way, as those stiff necks are broken. 
yeah, weird. 

Uh, no, that is not what I did.   What pointed out is that you strung a bunch of verses together and divorced them from their immediate context.  That is bad hermeneutic form because not only did you violate the rule of context, but you offered no explanation, no commentary.   So just posting Scripture isn't what you did.  You posted Scripture in a manner to make the Bible appear to say what you wanted it to say while pretty much butchering the texts you cited.   You quoted from Isaiah, Romans, Ephesians, Mark and II Corinthians and all of those passages are speaking to their own separate issues and have completely different contexts.  It was one of the worst ways to handle the Scriptures.

And there is no need to go off and accuse others of having their hearts hardened by God simply because they don't accept your views, implying that you some spiritual giant or something.  It is veiled personal attack on me since I am the person you keep referring to in the third person.

[post]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

it is and we take

i was just 'wondering' whether you keep wildly misunderstanding me on purpose, or if it's an actual flaw in your ability to comprehend what i say? 

not sure if this is a question you are capable of answering, but i figure i may as well go for it. 

thanks