more indept study of Armenian and Calvinist

[Ezra]

5 hours ago, angels4u said:

Most Calvinist ( this is off the topic for a moment ) think that we're already living in the Millenial, do you agree with the Amillenial doctrine?

That is correct, since it is Reformed Theology.  Augustine of Hippo (Roman Catholic) is actually the one who created Calvinism, since he taught the false idea of Total Depravity, and also that the Millennium had already come into existence.  The Reformers were former Catholics, so both Calvin and Luther (and other Reformers) accepted the teachings of Augustine and developed their theology along those lines.  Which shows once again the dangers of following the doctrines of men.

[enoob57]

25 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Setting aside the label of *Arminian*, it should be clearly stated that Calvinists misapply election and predestination to salvation, when the Bible makes it clear that those terms apply to sanctification and perfection -- "predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son".  Since Christ is perfect and in a glorious body, Christians will be perfected and also in glorious bodies. That is guaranteed by election and predestination.

Those who would believe were chosen before the foundation of the world (through Divine foreknowledge) to be perfected in Christ. "ELECT ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD".  Could all have been chosen in this manner had all believed?   Absolutely.  Therefore predestination for salvation or damnation is false doctrine.

I so wish I could write clearly: Like you do!   

[enoob57]

7 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I do not think that you are properly applying that. If a man's life does not reflect the faith in his life, that does not mean his theology is wrong, certainly notion everything he says. If a Christian commits an act of adultery, his fruit is bad. If he said that Jesus is the Son of God, should re reject that teaching because his fruit is flawed?
We are not talking about an indiscretion here and there but a way of life that was in place till died... I believe anyone who practices sin
throughout their life believing they are saved may find they have the spirit of deception in them rather than The Spirit of God... 

I  imagine there are scores of pastors, maybe hundreds or thousands, who have produced some bad fruit. That is not the measure of truth, that is just hypocrisy. Are you totally free of that? I am not.
No! Sin is ever present with me to sin, but I love God; so I wish it not to be there and: agree it is not to be practiced but fought against...

The measure of a teaching, is comparing it with scripture. Personally, I find some of your theology to be suspect, at least in peripheral matters, as I know you do mine as well. John Calvin, if he is in error, was in error on peripherals, even if they are important ones.
We know this of each other or we would not be in debate! As to determine among you and I the correct theology; forming doctrines; forming
fruit... that can be seen by all with the life that is lived: on how much it resembles The Scriptured life of Christ our Lord!!!

In any case, I again stress, that this topic is about theology, not personality. Let's measure that and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

On the plus side, I agree that it should be a matter of prayer for us all, and I would not reject the idea of you praying for me.
We are of the same s/Spirit here of the need of God to deliver us from ourselves in the renewing of the mind to that of God's Own  

Omega comments in this color
My comment in red

[angels4u]

11 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That is correct, since it is Reformed Theology.  Augustine of Hippo (Roman Catholic) is actually the one who created Calvinism, since he taught the false idea of Total Depravity, and also that the Millennium had already come into existence.  The Reformers were former Catholics, so both Calvin and Luther (and other Reformers) accepted the teachings of Augustine and developed their theology along those lines.  Which shows once again the dangers of following the doctrines of men.

 

 It also  still teaches that Revelation is mostly symbolic  

I did some reading about it and Amillenial teaching is still very much alive in the Reformed church.

 

 

[enoob57]

3 minutes ago, angels4u said:

 It also  still teaches that Revelation is mostly symbolic  

I did some reading about it and Amillenial teaching is still very much alive in the Reformed church.

 

 

The issue God teaches us in this life through wheat and tares are critical to s/Spiritual observation
in fruit of the doctrine... it will always be disclosed by the fruit it bears or lack there of  

[missmuffet]

5 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The issue God teaches us in this life through wheat and tares are critical to s/Spiritual observation
in fruit of the doctrine... it will always be disclosed by the fruit it bears or lack there of  

Now I could understand that.

[enoob57]

5 hours ago, angels4u said:

If a person would be predestined by God from the beginning why would the N.T. tells us that in the later days people would fall away from the truth? How can this be in they are the elect?

 

well this has to be balanced by John's statement

1 Jn 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
KJV
so we don't slide off in the Armenian error of loosing The Holy Spirit of God from within us  

[enoob57]

On 5/28/2016 at 1:15 PM, angels4u said:

If a person would be predestined by God from the beginning why would the N.T. tells us that in the later days people would fall away from the truth? How can this be in they are the elect?

 

 

On 5/28/2016 at 6:25 PM, enoob57 said:

well this has to be balanced by John's statement

1 Jn 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
KJV
so we don't slide off in the Armenian error of loosing The Holy Spirit of God from within us  

 

On 5/28/2016 at 6:35 PM, angels4u said:

Matthew 24:24

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

??

 

Angel I don't know how you are directing this with the line of communication we were having ... could enlarge your last statement/question a bit about false messiahs and prophets  

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

 

 

Angle I don't know how you are directing this with the line of communication we were having ... could enlarge your last statement/question a bit about false messiahs and prophets  

 

 

Sorry, I posted the wrong verse..

 

[missmuffet]

Matthew 24:24

“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”

Doesn't this have to do with how many will fall away from the truth during the end times?