Diaste Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Jaydog1976 said: Then my question would be are they truly saved? There will only be two choices at this time. Either one takes the mark or one doesn't take the mark. This particular event will then differentiate the true believers from those that are not. I think they are saved, truly. Or were. Then they get fearful and and take the mark to avoid either death or living like an animal. It's a real danger for believers and followers of Jesus, this mark of the beast, or I question whether any warning would be necessary at all. If an individual, any individual, could not be subject to the pressure of such a choice there would be no need of the mark or the warnings about the dire consequences. If believers could not make the decision to abandon the faith after initial salvation there is no need for the warning or the mark. There would be no reason to mark unbelievers in this case either. What I mean is, the idea of OSAS negates the need to separate believers from unbelievers and the mark is superfluous. David had to repent several times. Peter denied Jesus. This passage shows the danger we are all in at all times: Hebrews 10 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? And this passage as well. 2 Peter 2 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. We don't want to forget this passage either. Hebrews 6 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. We are in real danger at all times. this is why it is especially important to remain in close relationship with Jesus, to be strong in the Spirit, and trusting in the promises of the Father to keep us and deliver us from all our distress and trouble; having patience and strength in the power of the Spirit of God no matter the circumstances. I'm not saying that it's going to be a simple thing to hold to faith when confronted with fire of the beast, but God promised he would deliver us and that is my hope and trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2016 Just now, Diaste said: I think they are saved, truly. Or were. Then they get fearful and and take the mark to avoid either death or living like an animal. It's a real danger for believers and followers of Jesus, this mark of the beast, or I question whether any warning would be necessary at all. If an individual, any individual, could not be subject to the pressure of such a choice there would be no need of the mark or the warnings about the dire consequences. If believers could not make the decision to abandon the faith after initial salvation there is no need for the warning or the mark. There would be no reason to mark unbelievers in this case either. What I mean is, the idea of OSAS negates the need to separate believers from unbelievers and the mark is superfluous. David had to repent several times. Peter denied Jesus. This passage shows the danger we are all in at all times: Hebrews 10 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? And this passage as well. 2 Peter 2 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. We don't want to forget this passage either. Hebrews 6 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. We are in real danger at all times. this is why it is especially important to remain in close relationship with Jesus, to be strong in the Spirit, and trusting in the promises of the Father to keep us and deliver us from all our distress and trouble; having patience and strength in the power of the Spirit of God no matter the circumstances. I'm not saying that it's going to be a simple thing to hold to faith when confronted with fire of the beast, but God promised he would deliver us and that is my hope and trust. All your verses point to the fact that true believers will be able to withstand the mark. That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Jaydog1976 said: Then my question would be are they truly saved? There will only be two choices at this time. Either one takes the mark or one doesn't take the mark. This particular event will then differentiate the true believers from those that are not. We are exhorted many times to be ready and alert for His return, to be separate from the world and its cares. Those days will come with all the deception of wickedness, something we've never experienced. So rather than being "truly saved" or not, I see it as those believers who are alert and awake and those who fall sleep and succumbed to the deception. Those who are awake will refuse the mark resulting in a multitude beyond number being martyred. Those who are asleep will be "awakened" by the plagues and repent of worshiping the man of sin. The question for them is whether they brought extra oil or not. The "truly saved", as I see it, are those who keep the word of His perseverance and refuse the mark, along with those who repent of it and remain faithful until His return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted November 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,628 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Jaydog1976 said: All your verses point to the fact that true believers will be able to withstand the mark. That was my point. The question was "...truly saved?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted November 10, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) On 10/28/2016 at 0:55 PM, other one said: we don't know what the mark will be, nor do we know his name If you can't buy, sell or trade without it... you'll know. Edited November 10, 2016 by 7thseal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,122 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,852 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, 7thseal said: If you can't buy, sell or trade without it... you'll know. that is true, but once we go to a cashless society, that could be something as simple as a purple smiley face..... just suspend everyone's accounts until they show the little purple smiley face..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted November 10, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, other one said: that is true, but once we go to a cashless society, that could be something as simple as a purple smiley face..... just suspend everyone's accounts until they show the little purple smiley face..... According to Revelation it will be a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,122 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,852 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, 7thseal said: According to Revelation it will be a number. Quote Rev 13:15-18 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. NASB Maybe the number, or his name, or the number of his name... and that number is six hundred, sixty and six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted November 10, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, other one said: Maybe the number, or his name, or the number of his name... and that number is six hundred, sixty and six. Who has 666 always pointed at? The Antichrist will have a name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted January 7, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 11/10/2016 at 4:42 PM, 7thseal said: According to Revelation it will be a number. ,,,, yes..... and a system.... one that has been in effect, in use, worldwide, for decades or centuries already. including the number. peace? peace ? when there is no peace.... (the last century) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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