Sermon that made me uneasy

[kwikphilly]

Of Course Brother,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my good pleasure to talk with you,you are a wonderful Godly young man,on the right path,,,,,I'm sure you will find a good preacher,to hear good sermons    you know who I really like to listen to,Joseph Prince,,,,maybe you can try listening to one of his sermons,I do believe they are available on-line                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

[FresnoJoe]

On 6/8/2016 at 4:13 AM, SIC said:

So I was listening to this sermon on characteristics of a Pharisee. The preacher stated nearly 50 + characteristics of Pharisees. I found all of them agreeable .And he finally said " Even if you have one of these characteristics you are a Pharisee". Now that sounded very judgemental... And made me very uncomfortable.

I'd appreciate it if people here could add something...

Master Talk

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Matthew 23:1-3

The most important of the three were the Pharisees because they are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism. Their main distinguishing characteristic was a belief in an Oral Law that God gave to Moses at Sinai along with the Torah. The Torah, or Written Law, was akin to the U.S. Constitution in the sense that it set down a series of laws that were open to interpretation. The Pharisees believed that God also gave Moses the knowledge of what these laws meant and how they should be applied. This oral tradition was codified and written down roughly three centuries later in what is known as the Talmud.

The Pharisees also maintained that an after-life existed and that God punished the wicked and rewarded the righteous in the world to come. They also believed in a messiah who would herald an era of world peace.

Pharisees were in a sense blue-collar Jews who adhered to the tenets developed after the destruction of the Temple; that is, such things as individual prayer and assembly in synagogues. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/sadducees_pharisees_essenes.html

[SIC]

7 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Of Course Brother,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my good pleasure to talk with you,you are a wonderful Godly young man,on the right path,,,,,I'm sure you will find a good preacher,to hear good sermons    you know who I really like to listen to,Joseph Prince,,,,maybe you can try listening to one of his sermons,I do believe they are available on-line                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

I'll check them out Kwikphilly. Thank you  

[SIC]

6 minutes ago, FresnoJoe said:

Master Talk

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Matthew 23:1-3

The most important of the three were the Pharisees because they are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism. Their main distinguishing characteristic was a belief in an Oral Law that God gave to Moses at Sinai along with the Torah. The Torah, or Written Law, was akin to the U.S. Constitution in the sense that it set down a series of laws that were open to interpretation. The Pharisees believed that God also gave Moses the knowledge of what these laws meant and how they should be applied. This oral tradition was codified and written down roughly three centuries later in what is known as the Talmud.

The Pharisees also maintained that an after-life existed and that God punished the wicked and rewarded the righteous in the world to come. They also believed in a messiah who would herald an era of world peace.

Pharisees were in a sense blue-collar Jews who adhered to the tenets developed after the destruction of the Temple; that is, such things as individual prayer and assembly in synagogues. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/sadducees_pharisees_essenes.html

The Pharisees were also known for their hypocrisy weren't . I guess that's what the preacher intended to say. He just became a little too judgmental and prideful along the way  probably

[FresnoJoe]

2 minutes ago, SIC said:

The Pharisees were also known for their hypocrisy weren't....
I guess that's what the preacher intended to say....
He just became a little too judgmental....
and prideful along the way.... 
probably....

Pharisees Believed In Prayer

"I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony, John 17:20 (NET Bible)

And So Does Jesus

Therefore, because he always lives to intercede for them, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him. Hebrews 7:25 (International Standard Version)

Pharisees Believed In Gathering For Teaching And Worship

When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read the Scriptures. Luke 4:16 (New Living Translation)

And So Did Jesus

One Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, and a woman there had been disabled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was hunched over and could not stand up straight. When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” Then He laid His hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and began to glorify God.

But the synagogue leader was indignant that Jesus had healed on the Sabbath. “There are six days for work,” he told the crowd. “So come and be healed on those days and not on the Sabbath.”

“You hypocrites!” the Lord replied, “Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it to water? Then should not this daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, be released from her bondage on the Sabbath day?”

When Jesus said this, all His adversaries were humiliated. And the whole crowd rejoiced at all the glorious things He was doing. Luke 13:10-17 (Berean Study Bible)

So Who To Believe, Who

Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?” Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?” Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?”

 And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, “I find no guilt in Him. “But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover; do you wish then that I release for you the King of the Jews?” So they cried out again, saying, “Not this Man, but Barabbas.” Now Barabbas was a robber. John 18:33-40 (New American Standard Bible)

[Retrobyter]

On June 8, 2016 at 5:13 AM, SIC said:

So I was listening to this sermon on characteristics of a Pharisee. The preacher stated nearly 50 + characteristics of Pharisees. I found all of them agreeable .And he finally said " Even if you have one of these characteristics you are a Pharisee". Now that sounded very judgemental... And made me very uncomfortable.

I'd appreciate it if people here could add something...

Shalom, SIC.

So? It's really okay to be a Paruwsh (a Pharisee). All the word means is a "Separatist." They would separate themselves to know and observe the commandments. It was a position that was honorable when used correctly. If they used the position to get to know God better in what He wants for people to be and to do, then all benefitted from their teaching.

The problem with the P'ruwshiym (plural of Paruwsh, Pharisees) of Yeshua`s day is that they USED that position in a selfish, power-hungry manner. They would be quick to point out the Law to others, but they wouldn't keep those commandments unless it suited them to do so. HOWEVER, should someone they knew break any of those commandments, they'd be all over them like a duck on a June bug! And, just like priests who listened to people's confessions were once known to do back in the Dark Ages, they would USE that information to CONTROL others, reminding them of their faults at convenient moments to benefit the P'ruwshiym! To them, it was a racket, a scheme to control the people and their money!

So, don't feel so badly about having some of the characteristics of a Paruwsh. Just be sure that you don't follow the example of the P'ruwshiym with whom Yeshua` (Jesus) had to endure.

[MarleneF]

My questions are for the OP.  You said this sermon made you uncomfortable. Was it because you personally felt judged? Did you hear one of the 50 things, and realized you did have some of them in your life, and when the preacher said that even one of those characteristics makes you a Pharisee, did you feel like he was speaking to you?

While I don't agreee with this sort of sermon, it could be that God was using it to convict you, or others of something that they need to change in their lives. It could be an attitude, or a lack of service, or selflishness or any other thing. God has a way of speaking to us - and even using bad things - to help us grow as a Christian.

So my thought is to examine our hearts.  Was there anything specifically that you heard,  that you felt like applied to you?  If so, then time to take it to God in prayer.  If not, maybe someone else heard something and you might want to pray for them.

As to the statement that one thing makes you a Pharisee, I wouldn't worry about it.  The Pharisees became what is now our modern Jews after the temple in Jerusalem was raised in 70 AD.  Those Pharisees went on to spend decades writing the Talmud - which are a bunch of rules and interpretations of the Old Testament. I've read some of it, and it is mostly very bad hermenutics.  (Interpretation)  That means rules upon rules.   So I guess we will have to let God deal with the real descendents of the Pharisees.

As for us, if the shoe fits, we need to wear it!  In other words, don't worry about the messenger, but do pay attention to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.  God is speaking to you, one way or another, so dig deep and find out what his message is. 

[SIC]

2 hours ago, MarleneF said:

My questions are for the OP.  You said this sermon made you uncomfortable. Was it because you personally felt judged? Did you hear one of the 50 things, and realized you did have some of them in your life, and when the preacher said that even one of those characteristics makes you a Pharisee, did you feel like he was speaking to you?

While I don't agreee with this sort of sermon, it could be that God was using it to convict you, or others of something that they need to change in their lives. It could be an attitude, or a lack of service, or selflishness or any other thing. God has a way of speaking to us - and even using bad things - to help us grow as a Christian.

So my thought is to examine our hearts.  Was there anything specifically that you heard,  that you felt like applied to you?  If so, then time to take it to God in prayer.  If not, maybe someone else heard something and you might want to pray for them.

As to the statement that one thing makes you a Pharisee, I wouldn't worry about it.  The Pharisees became what is now our modern Jews after the temple in Jerusalem was raised in 70 AD.  Those Pharisees went on to spend decades writing the Talmud - which are a bunch of rules and interpretations of the Old Testament. I've read some of it, and it is mostly very bad hermenutics.  (Interpretation)  That means rules upon rules.   So I guess we will have to let God deal with the real descendents of the Pharisees.

As for us, if the shoe fits, we need to wear it!  In other words, don't worry about the messenger, but do pay attention to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.  God is speaking to you, one way or another, so dig deep and find out what his message is. 

Wise point Marlene. yes certain point convicted me.  I have been praying about correcting myself about those points. 

The reason I felt uncomfortable was because I felt the preacher was judgemental...

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Marlene,,,,,,,,& welcome to Worthy,glad you are here,,,,,,,,,,Praise Jesus!

      You may not have seen our Brothers earlier replies regarding your questions,,,,,,

Quote

He continually talks about overcoming sin as a one time activity and claims that overcoming sin is over and done in his life. And throughout his series of sermons he keeps saying " I know one brother who does this.", " I know one brother who does that". I would think a preacher should be saying " I used to do this and The Lord out of His Grace corrected me in love"..                                                                                                     posted by SIC

Quote

Well some of the characteristics that I have are: 

1. Having that unholy joy when I find that a brother/sister has committed a sin. 

2. A lack of humility at times

Those are the only 2 I can think of corresponding to the preacher's list...                                                                                  posted by SIC

      And yes,SIC,,,,,it is always Wise to do a little self exam,the Holy Spirit Will Reveal what we need to recognize when we ask Him to help us to "see":,,,,,

       Glad you are going to check out the sermons,I would like to know your opinion when you do                      With love-in Christ,Kwik

     

[RustyAngeL]

On 6/8/2016 at 9:49 AM, The_Patriot2016 said:

I think there are times when we all act like Pharisees, to one extent or another. Just food for thought.

I would almost be tempted to ask your preacher what characteristic he has?  And as was stated not one of us is perfect.