If you don't work you shouldn't eat? 2 Thess. 3:10

[GoldenEagle]

9 hours ago, bopeep1909 said:

Of course that goes for able bodied people who are able to work. There are many who are working the system and are not honest. They really are able to work. Then you have those who are really sick and genuinely are not able to work. That is what SSI and Social Security is for.

Is that was SSI and Social Security is for? Both are socialistic, welfare programs. Or was it created because the local Church failed to help those in need? Or perhaps too because people don't want to take care of their relatives who are disabled or can't work? 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

10 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Seems to me it is just saying that if a person to too lazy to work, then don't encourage his lazyness with handouts, reserve your charity for the needy, not the greedy, but that is just my interpretation.

I would also take notice, that the context is about brothers, those in the church. Paul also seems to prescribe a degree of shunning.

A person or specifically a Christian? 

I would agree the context is about brothers and sisters in the Church. What is it not about? It's not about non-Christians or how to run government. 

What do you mean by shunning? 

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Ezra perhaps... But maybe it's a specific passage to a specific station to a specific church? See my previous post starting with "Assuming for a moment..."

It is one illustration of a general Bible principle.  You will find numerous Proverbs relating to this. The whole point of the epistles is to teach all Christians in all ages Bible truth through specific incidents. If we want to see the necessity of hard work in connection with building the Church we should study Ezra-Nehemiah.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

It's not about non-Christians or how to run government. 

Actually it applies to all humanity across the board as set forth in Genesis 3:17-19. Adam represents, and is the progenitor of, the human race.

"Shunning" is another term for having no fellowship with another Christian.

[firestormx]

3 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Assuming for a moment we agree on the above previous post... bopeep1909, RobertS, Omegaman 3.0, Ezra

I think too often people use this passage out of context to say they don't have to help others. When in reality this passage clearly is meant to indicate what to do with Believers who are not being responsible. It was also written to a specific community at a specific time.

I agree wholeheartedly with your above statement.  

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Is that was SSI and Social Security is for? Both are socialistic, welfare programs. Or was it created because the local Church failed to help those in need? Or perhaps too because people don't want to take care of their relatives who are disabled or can't work? 

God bless,

GE

Yes, Social Security is there for those who are disabled and genuinely are not able to work. Even though their families are able to take care of them Social Security will help with their food,clothing and other needs. Families who are taking care of them should never help themselves to this supplemental income. That is a problem.

Social Security is also there for those who are retired and have paid into it all their working years.

[Ezra]

8 minutes ago, firestormx said:

I think too often people use this passage out of context to say they don't have to help others.-- quoting GoldenEagle

Since there are plenty of passages that teach Christians to bear one anothers' burdens, I don't see how anyone could misapply this passage about laziness.

[firestormx]

3 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Since there are plenty of passages that teach Christians to bear one anothers' burdens, I don't see how anyone could misapply this passage about laziness.

Matthew 25:41-46

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

Show me the exception in the words of the King and Lord Jesus Christ, where we get to decide if someone exceeds our standard of laziness before we show love and compassion and mercy. To often people are just looking for an excuse not to have to lift a finger to help anyone.

[Willa]

4 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Is that was SSI and Social Security is for? Both are socialistic, welfare programs. Or was it created because the local Church failed to help those in need? Or perhaps too because people don't want to take care of their relatives who are disabled or can't work? 

God bless,

GE

 

I rather resent that you would call SS, something we have invested in for all of our working years, to be socialistic welfare programs.  The government has been  stealing our investment and using it for other programs without our permission, by the way.  

Even the welfare programs demand that able bodied people work.  Their wages are supplemented according to the size of their families, I believe.  

At our church those who come begging for help must also labor around the church and even at the homes of the pastors.  They work as janitors and other labor.  The church then pays the arrears on a utility bill or other dire need.  

In the times past when extended family was present, the families helped out those in need.  They gleaned from their crops or lived an a basic shack on their property. Today they may have to move in with relatives for a time till they find work.  Of course they are expected to do their share of chores.  But in our mobile society family is not always present.   Churches do help our their members.  The collection for the poor church in Jerusalem that Paul took was due to the famine in that area, and that the people were living in a commune and had sold their land and goods.  So they were without resources.  But people still had compassion on their brothers in Christ.  

While as individuals we should not close our hearts to people in need that we encounter, such as the Good Samaritan had helped, it doesn't seem to be the duty of the church to feed the world.  We take care of those faithful to Christ.  So our church also helps to support poor churches in India and Africa.  

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Golden Eagle,,,

      I agree with Ezra completely,the passage you are referring to does mean exactly what it says,,,,,,able bodied folks(ESPECIALLY Christians & they are the audience he was writing to address),,,,,,,should not have their hands out ,,,,,no work,no eats!   But the message is twofold ,,,,,,,he also speaks of the busybodies,this should be a good example of what idleness breeds,,,,,,,idleness & laziness leads to unproductive,ineffective,negative mischief(gossip etc...)

     This is probably where the old saying came from "An idle mind is the devil's workshop"                 With love-in Christ,Kwik

Also,Paul is NOT talking about the elderly,the disabled,widows,orphans etc,,,,,,, He is obviously talking about opportunists,people expecting hand outs that are perfectly capable of earning their way,& Paul he lead by example,,,,,,,