Sexual Harassment

[missmuffet]

Companies used to ignore sexual harassment years go. Now they are all over it and it is a serious offense. You can get another employee fired for such behavior which is nice because it keeps them in line.

[Running Gator]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

Actually, that question has occurred to me also.  The normal response to any crime is to report it immediately.  Therefore it would appear that there are other motives involved, not simply getting justice.

We should also keep in mind that a double-standard is being applied in many cases.  If it suits, its sweet.  If it doesn't it's harassment, depending on which hormones are at work.

This is not a double standard, this is the way it should be.  Harassment is determined by the party receiving the attention, not the one giving it.   You could treat two people of the same gender exactly the same and to one it is harassment and to the other it is not, and there is nothing wrong with that.  If you compliment someone on their attire and they tell you they are not comfortable with you doing that, then you should not do it any more.  But they do have to let you know and give you a chance to change your behavior, unless it is so egregious that everyone should know better (i.e. touching or something like that).

 

[Running Gator]

4 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I never said that the assessment on that test could not be a form of sexual harassment, it was their assertions that is always is, that was disturbing. I think your contention that if you treat everyone similarly, has merit. However, a failure to do so, does prove a person's intentions nor even indicate that there is a problem at hand. If a person is not as attractive in appearance to one person's tastes as another, they may not single a person out for a complement for that reason, yet having nothing to do with unwanted sexual attention. 

I like cars that have bright, warm colors, and roof-lines 45 inches and lower to the ground, and on that basis, I would not tell a person with a white pickup truck, that they have an attractive car, it is not to my tastes. Similarly, if my tastes tend more toward a young woman in an evening gown that a balding man with hairy arms in the same gown, yes, that is a form of discrimination, but it is not sexual harassment to complement one person but not the other.

It is a shame, that we have become such busy-bodies and whiny wimps, that we cannot chose to offer a compliment to another person, on their selection of clothing without wondering if some lawyer smells a payday coming, when they choose to interpret the intentions of others as some act of sexual intent.

Not every man is a predator any more than every white person is a racist, and it would sure be nice, if we could just worry more about outward actions, instead of speculating about the intentions of a person's heart.

You as the one making the compliment do not get to choose if it is sexual harassment or not, the one on the receiving end does.   

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 minute ago, Out of the Shadows said:

You as the one making the compliment do not get to choose if it is sexual harassment or not, the one on the receiving end does.   

Wow, that is so utterly twisted and sick. I am truly flabbergasted that such mentalities exist, and it is a sad thing in my opinion, that they do! The only ones who know if it is a complement, is the person making the compliment, and God.

People do not get to dictate my thoughts and heart.  Political correctness, is such an ugly thing to me. Maybe we could turn this around, and point out hypothetically, that I am offended and hurt by your post, that you have no right to post it, that only I can decide, whether what you tell me, is verbal harrasment or not.

com·pli·ment

noun

 

ˈkämpləmənt/

1. 1.

   a polite expression of praise or admiration.

   "she paid me an enormous compliment"

A compliment, is an expression, it is made by people. It does not depend on the recipient to determine IF it was a compliment, it depends on the recipient to determine if the compliment is welcomed or unwelcomed. I person may have certain insecurities that prevents them from receiving a compliment gracefully, but that is a reflection on them, not on the one giving the compliment.

If I were to say to you, "that was a well written post", I would be stating and my opinion (which I am entitled to), and paying you a compliment, which I elected to.

If you are not comfortable with such a compliment, feel free to reject it, but don't start assigning motives to others, that you have no ability to judge.

 

[Running Gator]

19 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Wow, that is so utterly twisted and sick. I am truly flabbergasted that such mentalities exist, and it is a sad thing in my opinion, that they do! The only ones who know if it is a complement, is the person making the compliment, and God.

People do not get to dictate my thoughts and heart.  Political correctness, is such an ugly thing to me. Maybe we could turn this around, and point out hypothetically, that I am offended and hurt by your post, that you have no right to post it, that only I can decide, whether what you tell me, is verbal harrasment or not.

com·pli·ment

noun

 

ˈkämpləmənt/

1. 1.

   a polite expression of praise or admiration.

   "she paid me an enormous compliment"

A compliment, is an expression, it is made by people. It does not depend on the recipient to determine IF it was a compliment, it depends on the recipient to determine if the compliment is welcomed or unwelcomed. I person may have certain insecurities that prevents them from receiving a compliment gracefully, but that is a reflection on them, not on the one giving the compliment.

If I were to say to you, "that was a well written post", I would be stating and my opinion (which I am entitled to), and paying you a compliment, which I elected to.

If you are not comfortable with such a compliment, feel free to reject it, but don't start assigning motives to others, that you have no ability to judge.

 

It is not sick and twisted, it is the way it is.  What you are missing is that your intent does not matter, it is how your actions are perceived by the other party.  You say that people do not get to dictate your thoughts, well that works both ways.  You do not get to dictate how you actions are received.  I fought this fight with my children for most of their life, they would say something rude and then when I called them all it they were like "well, I didn't mean to be rude".   We would tell them it didn't matter if they meant to be, it was received that way. 

And yes, you have every right to tell me that my post offended you and that you wold like me to stop.  I can choose to listen to you or ignore you and then the moderators can decide if I was out of line.  If I was then I get banned from the thread.   If the one making the comment got to choose if it was harassment or not then nothing would be, I could make seuxally suggestive comments to a woman and say "hey, I was just giving you a compliment".  

[Ezra]

5 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said:

 But they do have to let you know and give you a chance to change your behavior...

If it is immediate, that is legitimate.  If it is ten years down the road, it's a farce.

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Companies used to ignore sexual harassment years go. Now they are all over it and it is a serious offense. You can get another employee fired for such behavior which is nice because it keeps them in line.

Now the question is whether this is being applied even-handedly or is it just the men who are always the perpetrators (just like it is always dads who are at fault when it comes to child custody)? Would anyone take it seriously if a man complained about a woman?

[missmuffet]

50 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Now the question is whether this is being applied even-handedly or is it just the men who are always the perpetrators (just like it is always dads who are at fault when it comes to child custody)? Would anyone take it seriously if a man complained about a woman?

Oh no. I think that women are just as guilty as men. I think most companies respect that. Maybe some men are too prideful or embarrassed to report it.  But when outside the work environment men and women are on their own. I think it is wise to stay away from such places that you are vulnerable for sexual harassment. How many people are going to be harassed at Church or at the grocery store? But go into a bar and WATCH OUT!!

[Omegaman 3.0]

6 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said:

It is not sick and twisted, it is the way it is.  What you are missing is that your intent does not matter, it is how your actions are perceived by the other party.  You say that people do not get to dictate your thoughts, well that works both ways.  You do not get to dictate how you actions are received.

You are missing my point though. In the scenario I am describing, I agree with you. If I am offended, then yes, I could ask you to stop. If you wanted to be decent about it, then you might be willing to stop doing what I find offensive. However, that is not what is happening as I described it.

The differences is between a person saying "ok, sorry that I offended you", versus never being able to say anything, because a person never even got the opportunity to be offended or to not be offended. Rather that being a grown-up and saying "that is offensive" like a rational person, it instead falls to some third party not even involved to decide whether one person is offensive or not, and whether or not the other party should be offended.

Intent does not matter? There are times when that is true. I am sure, that Hillary did not intend for people to die, we do have a concept called gross negligence, I get that. That old saying "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions", is known. Here though, you are suggesting, that people should either be mind readers, or else never do a kindness because one never knows who might be offended.

When you use the example of your children: "they would say something rude and then when I called them all it they were like "well, I didn't mean to be rude".   We would tell them it didn't matter if they meant to be, it was received that way. "

I see a few problems. They are children, they will act like children, and parents teach them how to behave. Here, we are talking about adults. You do not want to allow adults to be adults, you want them to not take risks, not do kindnesses, and use good judgment and indeed, even want to tell people when they should be offended. The only adult permitted in your world here, is someone assuming the role of self appointed adult, who never lets children grow up to make choices, or even develop consciences. 

I am going to leave you with your mind numbed robot utopia nanny state, and let you have the last word if you like. Clearly we do not share a vision of how the world should be.

[Running Gator]

7 hours ago, Ezra said:

If it is immediate, that is legitimate.  If it is ten years down the road, it's a farce.

Have you ever heard of the "Statute of limitations".  As long as the charge falls within this time frame it is legally legit.