tradition vs scripture

[Guest Teditis]

I disagree because the message and the meaning are quite clearly made... that God was manifested in the flesh.

Furthermore, as I understand it, in the Greek originals (according to Strong's) it's a pronoun that's used here...

not the word "god" nor the name of God.

But I can understand that it's important to some... so I leave you to it. Blessings

[Guest Teditis]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That's the problem, we don't have the ORIGINALS just early copies of manuscripts. So it all depends on which family of manuscripts one goes with that will determine whether 'ho' or 'theos' is found.

Thank you for correcting me.... I should have said manuscripts not originals.

Btw, this is one of the proof texts (1 Tim 3:16) that some would use to point out that the TR,

which is a translation of Greek into "higher-Greek", has altered the text... not the other way around.

Most of the older manuscripts use the pronoun "He" and write in the form of prose, which leads many

to believe that Paul was quoting some other material such as a hymn.

[Ezra]

5 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Not true. Some modern versions use the same source texts as the kjv. 

If you are referring to updates of the KJV, true. But even the NKJV has some serious issues.

[ghtan]

12 hours ago, creativemechanic said:

But try telling that to people who have beenconditioned to be KJV only. I told a relative abt that and even gave examples (love of money is the root of all evil) . person started talking as if I'm some sorta heretic with  radical ideas.
 

Did not notice KJV's curious translation of 1 Tim 6:10 until you pointed it out. Thanks. See that NKJV has corrected it though. Glad for you that you no longer rely on the KJV.

[creativemechanic]

12 hours ago, ghtan said:

Did not notice KJV's curious translation of 1 Tim 6:10 until you pointed it out. Thanks. See that NKJV has corrected it though. Glad for you that you no longer rely on the KJV.

That verse didnt make sense to me in the KJV.It says the love of money is the root of all evil, but there are many types of evil- rape , abuse, that have no roots in money. Then i learned that other texts  translate it better as- the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil ,which makes moresense

[Flsnookman]

God spoke all there is into existence yet many here seem to think He can not keep His message pure through different translations...really? There will always be those who are looking for a reason not to believe and they will always find it. Those who claim Christianity should know better but sadly even they are often deceived. 

1 Cor 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Either we go by faith or by proof, not both.

[creativemechanic]

19 minutes ago, Flsnookman said:

God spoke all there is into existence yet many here seem to think He can not keep His message pure through different translations...really? There will always be those who are looking for a reason not to believe and they will always find it. Those who claim Christianity should know better but sadly even they are often deceived. 

1 Cor 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Either we go by faith or by proof, not both.

in John 1:1, the word refers to Jesus btw

[SavedOnebyGrace]

19 hours ago, Ezra said:

This is one time when *traditional* is superior to contemporary.  The Textus Receptus (TR or Received Text) is the Traditional Text of the New Testament, which also happens to be the Byzantine Text, or the Majority Text.  And that is the key.  If 5,000 manuscripts support the Receive Text and 5 manuscripts are at serious variance, then it should be obvious as to which is superior and which is spurious.

On the other hand the Alexandrian Text is also the Minority Text (called the Critical Text because it was created by textual critics who rejected the TR). It was corrupted by the Gnostics and discarded by Christians. But the amazing fraud which has never been fully recognized is that rationalistic scholars elevated the corrupt above the pure, and thus all modern versions reflect this text which has thousands of variations from the true text, and about 1,500 changes with doctrinal significance.  As noted above 1 Timothy 3:16 was changed to deny the Deity of Christ -- that Jesus is God.

Last I checked, Christian beliefs are not based on a majority vote.

[gamnot]

1 hour ago, creativemechanic said:

That verse didnt make sense to me in the KJV.It says the love of money is the root of all evil, but there are many types of evil- rape , abuse, that have no roots in money. Then i learned that other texts  translate it better as- the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil ,which makes moresense

When you talk about the different types of evil, I am reminded of the verse in Ecclesiastes; Chapter 7 - "This only have I found; God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of schemes."     The keyword is schemes and schemes are often fueled by money as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a measure of value and for that reason can easily be used for exploitation purposes. But schemes can also be used in different ways to gain dominance as in abuse, rape, etc. without the involvement of money. Schemes fueled by money can be used to promote progress which is good as well as for evil purposes. 

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, creativemechanic said:

the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil ,which makes moresense

Perhaps.  But if that is not in the text, translators do not have the liberty to paraphrase or add words. The NIV is the worst paraphrase.

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894 (actual KJV TR)
ῥίζα γὰρ πάντων τῶν κακῶν ἐστιν ἡ φιλαργυρία 

Literally "for a root of all evils is the love of money".

But the modern translations have added one word --"kinds" -- even though it is not in the critical texts (which are identical to the TR). 

Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
ῥίζα γὰρ πάντων τῶν κακῶν ἐστιν ἡ φιλαργυρία

Even though the Greek says "evils" (plural) the idiomatic "evil" in the KJV is generic, hence covers the plurality.