Mohammedism Versus The Living God Of Israel

[Knowingtruth]

23 minutes ago, Davida said:

Book--schmook!    Can't tell how you came to believe?

In short, I believe in the way I found Him.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

Who do you believe? Jesus or a rank outsider and a Gentile, Luke?

Does Paul teach against something Jesus said?  Does Paul or Luke contradict Jesus.

The Bible is 100% inspired by God, including all of the NT and God used Paul and Luke to write a significant portion of the New Testament. So why would God choose to use them if they are false?

[Knowingtruth]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Does Paul teach against something Jesus said?  Does Paul or Luke contradict Jesus.

The Bible is 100% inspired by God, including all of the NT and God used Paul and Luke to write a significant portion of the New Testament. So why would God choose to use them if they are false?

It is news for me. Jesus never chose anybody to write. Instead, He sent the Holy Spirit to remind of His preaching. So if there are any writings, they should complement what Jesus taught. 

[Guest Robert]

12 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

Who do you believe? Jesus or a rank outsider and a Gentile, Luke?

Ah, so now Luke's account in Acts is not good enough? First Paul's own words, then Peter's and now Luke's? And Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke, but while His gospel and Jesus' words in it are good enough, the Book of Acts is not?

All you are doing is "moving the goalposts"; every time proof is given to you, you discount it and continue to claim no one can meet your challenge.

 

So, let's follow this "rabbit hole" to its' logical conclusion, and see where it leads us...

 

If you discount Acts, then you must discount Luke's gospel, as neither can be relied upon. Matthew was a tax collector, which was considered a traitor by the Jews; since he was considered worse than a Gentile, you must also discount his account as well.

Now we are down to two gospels.

Mark's gospel must then be removed by your claims because it is thought to be written from information from the Apostle Peter (whom you discounted already), so the Gospel of Mark goes! Now we have ONE gospel: John's. And now we must discount that one (along with his 3 letters and Revelation) due to the fact that there has been question raised about the authorship of the Gospel of John, which would cast doubt on the rest of his works.

No one can be sure of Hebrews because the author isn't listed, and since they are not "Jesus' words" that falls by the wayside, as does the Book of Jude.

 

So, in claiming Luke isn't good enough, you've successively removed book after book until there is nothing left of the New Testament.  You claim to "believe in Jesus' words?" And since Jesus' words aren't recorded in the OT (after all, John said Jesus was the Son of God and God, but John's work was discounted), you throw out the entire OT as well.

 

You end up removing every one, but it doesn't end there...

 

Since the whole Bible is now discounted and cannot be regarded as His word (it's been taken completely apart under your premise that Paul and Luke's words are not trustworthy), that also means the Qur'an cannot be relied upon either. Muhammad is said in the Qur'an to be illiterate:

"Surah 7:157: "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures), - in the law and the Gospel..."

That being the case, then the Qur'an could not have been written by him (who knows then who it's written by?)and thus is also unreliable, which eliminates Islam as a possibility. This also applies to Buddhism, as Buddha's words were only recorded after he died, as well as Hinduism, whose holy books (The Vedas), are said to have no author. So they cannot be trusted either and must also be discarded. Additionally, Taoism must then also be discarded, as the Tao Te Ching (Tao Holy Text) has dispute over who truly wrote it, and thus it cannot be relied upon.  Neither can Confucius' five texts "The Book of History," "The Book of Poetry," "The Book of Changes," "The Book of Rites," and the "Spring and Autumn Annals." due to the fact that they cannot be confirmed to have been written by Confucius either.

Since Judaism is based on the OT, that has to go with the others as well.

 

So now we're in the land of atheism (seeing as moving the goalposts has disqualified all the texts). We can only go by our 5 senses...or can we?

Sight has been proven to be unreliable (illusions, mirages, visual tricks and distortions), so we cannot trust our eyes.

Hearing also is unreliable, as it can be manipulated and distorted (sound effects in movies, echoes, the sound of jets following far after the planes,audio illusions etc.), so we cannot rely on that sense.

Taste can be manipulated chemically, as can the sense of Smell (done all the time in the Food Industry), so those two are off the list.

So, we are left with Touch; that can be fooled with "tactile illusions" (example: wearing a hat for a long time and taking it off, only to feel like you're still wearing it). So Touch is not reliable either and is disqualified.

 

The physical world is now discounted in its' entirely, as all the input that says it exists have been ruled out along the same guidelines previously used.

 

Continuing on, all you have left now is your mind. But, since we discounted the Bible, we also discounted the idea that we have a soul and spirit. That leaves us as only existing in our brains. But since we cannot trust now our 5 senses either, we do not know if we exist in any sense (physical or otherwise), or are just a figment in someone else's imagination. We have no standard now for our thoughts being our own, as for all we know, we might be someone's imagined "character" or even a simulated algorithm in some alien machine...

 

We cannot prove any of it; all means for doing so have been discredited, and we now are left with nothing.

 

All of that, just to get rid of Paul.

 

While all of this has been taken to the absurd extreme, it demonstrates what happens when you keep "moving the goalposts"; after a while, nothing becomes good enough. In this case, the "goalposts' ended up moving on their own down an ever-increasing slope until all reality unraveled. And that is the danger in not accepting the words of Scripture: where do you stop? What is "good enough" and what is not?

There are better reasons for discounting the other "holy texts" that are written, and at some point, we have to accept that the physical world and ourselves exist. And when examined and pout to the test, we accept that Scripture is the One true word of God and not able to be picked to pieces and re-arranged at our leisure. With that said: if you accept the OT, then you have to accept the NT. If you accept the 4 Gospels, then you also must accept Acts. If you accept Acts, then you accept that Luke called Paul an Apostle, and therefore the Pauline Epistles are also legitimate.

Scripture is not a piecemeal thing we can discount when parts do not meet our approval: we take all of it, or none of it. It serves as a mirror that reflects us as we truly are, and if we do not like what it says, it is not up to us to judge Scripture...

 

...it is we who are being judged by Scripture. All of Scripture is the word of God, and Jesus Christ is God and the Son of God.

 

 

The whole Bible is His story....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by RobertS

[FresnoJoe]

18 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

Who do you believe....
Jesus or a rank outsider and a Gentile, Luke....

Dear One,

If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." Luke 9:5 (New International Version)

I Believe The Holy Spirit, A Beloved Insider

Then he said, “When I was with you before, I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

And he said, “Yes, it was written long ago that the Messiah would suffer and die and rise from the dead on the third day. It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in the authority of his name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: ‘There is forgiveness of sins for all who repent.’ You are witnesses of all these things.

“And now I will send the Holy Spirit, just as my Father promised. But stay here in the city until the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with power from heaven.” Luke 24:45-49

And The First Testament Of Jesus (OT)

“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven and swear, As I live forever,

if I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and will repay those who hate me. I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh — with the blood of the slain and the captives, from the long-haired Heads of the enemy.’

“Rejoice with him, O heavens; bow down to him, all gods, for he avenges the blood of his children and takes vengeance on his adversaries. He repays those who hate him and cleanses his people’s land.” Deuteronomy 32:39-43 (English Standard Version)

And The Second Testament (NT)

After this I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude in heaven, shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God! For His judgments are true and righteous; He has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, He has avenged the blood of His servants that was poured out by her hand.”

And a second time they called out: “Hallelujah! Her smoke ascends forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying: “Amen, Hallelujah!”

Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you who serve Him, and those who fear Him, small and great alike!” Revelation 19:1-5 (Berean Study Bible)

So Why Can't You

For God loved the world in this way: so much that he would give up his Son, The Only One, so that everyone who trusts in him shall not be lost, but he shall have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world that he would condemn the world, but that he would give life to the world by him.

Whoever believes in him is not judged, and whoever does not believe is judged already, because he does not believe in The Name of The Only Begotten Son of God.

This is the judgment: The Light has come into the world and the children of men loved the darkness more than The Light, because their works were evil. For everyone who does what is hateful, hates The Light and does not come to The Light, lest his works should be convicted.

But he who does The Truth comes to The Light, so that his works may be revealed, that they are performed by God." John 3:16-21 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

Believe

~

Be Blessed

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 (New American Standard Bible)

Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Praying~!

LORD Jesus Bind The Mind Blinder
And Free The Islamic
And The Jew

For You Are Our Only Hope

I Love You LORD
I Love You

 ~

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

 From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[FresnoJoe]

Beloved, I Have Little Doubt Many Dear Muslims

But they say: There is no hope; but we will walk after our own devices, and we will do every one after the stubbornness of his evil heart.' Jeremiah 18:12 (JPS Tanakh 1917)

Have The Same Stone Blindness

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12 (King James Bible)

Many Jews Have

All the future events in this vision are like a sealed book to them. When you give it to those who can read, they will say, "We can't read it because it is sealed." Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I don't know how to read." Isaiah 29:11-12 (New International Version)

However LORD Jesus

She will give birth to a son and you will name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21 (NET Bible)

(He Is Both A Jew And The KING OF THE JEWS)

So then he delivered him to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus and led him away..

He went out, carrying the cross himself, to the place called "The Place of a Skull," which is called in Hebrew, "Golgotha," where they crucified him, and with him two others, on either side one, and Jesus in the middle. Pilate wrote a title also, and put it on the cross. There was written, "JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS."

Therefore many Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jewish people therefore said to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'he said, I am King of the Jews.'" Pilate answered, "What I have written, I have written." John 19:16-22 (New Heart English Bible)

Will, As These Latter Days Grow Shorter

You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time. 2People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy, and lack normal affection for their families.

They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good. They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God. They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them.

Stay away from such people. Some of these men go into homes and mislead weak-minded women who are burdened with sins and led by all kinds of desires. These women are always studying but are never able to recognize the truth.

As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men oppose the truth. Their minds are corrupt, and the faith they teach is counterfeit. Certainly, they won't get very far. Like the stupidity of Jannes and Jambres, their stupidity will be plain to everyone. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Totally Flip The Hearts

Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Yahweh.

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yahweh; for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Yahweh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

Thus says Yahweh, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, so that its waves roar; Yahweh of Armies is his name:

If these ordinances depart from before me, says Yahweh, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever.

Thus says Yahweh: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says Yahweh.

Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that the city shall be built to Yahweh from the tower of Hananel to the gate of the corner. The measuring line shall go out further straight onward to the hill Gareb, and shall turn about to Goab. The whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields to the brook Kidron, to the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy to Yahweh; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more forever. Jeremiah 31:31-40 (World English Bible)

Of His Israel

I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? Never may it be! But in their trespass is salvation to the Gentiles, so as to provoke them to jealousy. But if their trespass is the riches of the world, and their failure is the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

Now I am speaking to you the Gentiles. Therefore indeed inasmuch as I am apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if at all I shall provoke to jealousy my own flesh, and shall save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be if not life out from the dead? Now if the firstfruit is holy, also the lump; and if the root is holy, also the branches.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and have become a fellow-partaker of the fatness of the root of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. And if you boast against them, you do not support the root, but the root you.

You will say, then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” Rightly so: They were broken off by the unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be high minded, but be afraid. For if God did not at all spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you.

Behold therefore the kindness and severity of God: severity indeed upon those having fallen, but kindness of God toward you, if you continue in the kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

And even they, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off out of the naturally wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural, be grafted into the own olive tree! Romans 11:11-24 (Berean Literal Bible)

So....

He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18 ((Jubilee Bible 2000)

Is There Any Hope Left For The Muslim?

"Come to Me, all of you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[FresnoJoe]

On 9/2/2016 at 8:43 AM, Knowingtruth said:

Paul indicates in some places that it is his concession and not a commandment of the Lord....
Peter wrote that Paul wrote according to his wisdom....
Who, meanwhile, accepted all of the NT....
is God's words....

Jesus' words are of paramount importance....
I accept all writings that complement....
Lord's preaching....

Me

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this,
make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation,
just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

He writes the same way in all his letters,
speaking in them of these matters.

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:14-16 (New International)Version

Too

I have come in My Father's name, and you have not received Me;
but if someone else comes in his own name, you will receive him. John 5:43 (Berean Study Bible)

[Guest shiloh357]

16 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

It is news for me. Jesus never chose anybody to write. Instead, He sent the Holy Spirit to remind of His preaching. So if there are any writings, they should complement what Jesus taught. 

The Bible says that all Scripture is inspired by God.  The Holy Spirit is the one who guided the authors of the New Testament.   The teachings of Paul compliment and are based on teachings of Jesus.  All of the New Testament is God's word.   A person who rejects the New Testament cannot claim to be a follower of Jesus.

[Guest Robert]

19 hours ago, Knowingtruth said:

I ask the same question. You disregard Jesus and His call. Luke cannot offer you salvation. 

Yet he wrote His words in the Gospel, which you discounted (Even though your own words were "Luke can be trusted more than Paul). And in discounting Acts and the Gospel of Luke, you also discount the rest of scripture.

Either all of the Bible is God's word or none of it.

Choose.

Edited September 4, 2016 by RobertS

[Guest Robert]

27 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The Bible says that all Scripture is inspired by God.  The Holy Spirit is the one who guided the authors of the New Testament.   The teachings of Paul compliment and are based on teachings of Jesus.  All of the New Testament is God's word.   A person who rejects the New Testament cannot claim to be a follower of Jesus.

Correct, yet that is what knowingthetruth is doing. He either has to take all of scripture as God's word or none of it, but he keeps dancing around the issue.